Does happiness make money?
My guest in this episode believes it does…
Paul ter Wal is an employability expert and workplace architect who is trying to solve the world’s crisis of engagement.
He’s here to share how to create a highly engaged workforce for a thriving organization.
Paul will cover:
- The difference between a vertical and horizontal workplace
- How to make core values non-negotiables
- Why he doesn’t like the term human resources
- The secret to eye-opening 1-on-1s
- Why engagement correlates with profitability
- And more
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Paul ter Wal: So what we do is create more potential. And then people will be much more flexible, and when they’re flexible profitability goes up, because they can fit in somewhere else where we really need them instead of doing the job that they did.
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast with professional speaker, coach and consultant Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome, everybody to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and I have a fantastic guest on the show today. I have on the show today, Paul ter Wal. He is an international engagement explorer. He is an employability expert and workplace architect. For more than 25 years, he has been in the speaking consulting and training business for executives, human beings, directors and employees.
He thinks that happiness makes money. I couldn’t agree more. According to a Gallup engagement index, a staggering 87% of employees worldwide are not engaged at work. The world has a crisis of engagement with serious and potentially long lasting repercussions for the organizations that people are inside of.
This is where Paul steps in. The former lawyer works on both sides, employer and employee to create work happiness and loyalty. His concept is based on finding the non-negotiables and the core values of the individual as well as the company. Because a highly engaged workforce means the difference between a company that thrives and one that struggles.
When employees are engaged they are passionate, creative, and entrepreneurial and their enthusiasm fuels growth. These employees are emotionally connected to the mission and the purpose of their work. And we’re gonna let Paul teach us how to do all that. Welcome to the show, Paul. We’re delighted to have you!
Paul: Thank you, Nicole. Great to be on this show.
Nicole: Yeah, so I am delighted that you’re here. I’m collecting definitions of leadership. I’m wondering if right out of the gate you might share with me, what is Paul’s definition of leadership?
Paul: Leadership is about human beings who are capable of creating trust with employees with human beings and are able to listen to their demands and their wishes.
Nicole: That’s fantastic. That’s fantastic. Yeah. And you have got a wonderful paper that I have in front of me. The role of the value to profit model in 21st century organizations. And you talk a little bit about how leaders might be able to do that, right? Because if I build trust, and I’m listening to people, odds are I’m going to have happy campers inside my organization, right?
Paul: Yeah, it sounds so awfully easy. But we see in a lot of organizations, it’s so difficult to perform, because most of the time, when I’m the best employee, my boss will ask me to become a manager, a leader. And then suddenly, I’m higher in rank, then my former colleagues. And that’s doing strange things with human beings. They behave suddenly differently. So this is what we call the Anglo-Saxon approach.
The CEO with the shareholders are in the top, and then you have more levels going down. In the more European approach, we have a horizontal view. The CEO is the master supportive facilitator. And he’s helping the professionals who is doing the real job to perform in a better way.
And then you see if you can listen to them, if they trust you, if you support them, and facilitate them, they will be the best engaged professionals that you want. So we try to swap the organization from vertical into horizontal. And what we see is that we are much more supportive to human beings. So we don’t have that lonely guy, most of the time guy at the top. I wish we had more women at the top because then it would be easier to be horizontal.
The lonely guy who’s telling his directors what to do, and they shout it to the next level and to the next level and the people down are thinking, okay, you’re telling me what to do. I will do what you asked me to do. Well, that’s not the most effective way of doing your professional work. That’s how we look at it.
Nicole: Okay, that’s fantastic. And so I just want to pull out two words from what you just said. You said that a leader, a CEO needs to be a master supporter and set up an organization that is horizontal. I love that. Don’t miss that ladies. He’s a big fan of the ladies. He says he’d love some more of them at the top. Just don’t miss that. Yeah, that’s fantastic. All right. So how does a leader make this switch? So everybody’s like, gosh, I got this, this org chart, Paul, and my name is at the top in the big box. I got all sorts of boxes below me. How do I change this up so that I can be a master supporter like you’re challenging us to do?
Paul: I think it starts with mindset. Because if it becomes results driven approach. So oh, Paul tells me and Gallup tells us that it will support us and business will be better and profit will grow. Oh, let’s do it. It’s not going to work, because I won’t believe you. So then again, trust is in stake. So what we say is, first of all, you need to look at your mindset, you need to look at your non-negotiables.
What is your purpose, what is your meaning in life as a human being and as an organization. Which for me, is a group of people with the same purpose. It’s not breaks, it’s not IT, it’s not some sort of organization structure that isn’t real. It’s a group of human beings. And if they have alignment on core values, within the organizational core values and the core values of the individual, then it’s much easier to go from a top down to a more fertile front back office situation.
Because if we trust each other, because we have core values, non negotiables that are aligned, then I understand and you understand me, we can hold each other accountable. So we create trust, and I don’t need a CEO to tell you what to do. Because, hey, you’re the professional. You have been trained, I’ve supported you. It starts with that mindset. And then it will take two or three years to make that switch from vertical to horizontal.
Nicole: Yeah, so it’s like a three year plan that we have to put in place. And the first thing we start with is our mindset. So let me just tell you what he just said, just put bullet points right there for you is that what you need to do is get your mind right. And that includes figuring out your non negotiables The purpose for the human beings inside the organization, and then alignment around core values. So will you talk a little bit about non negotiables? Just in case, there’s somebody in the audience thinking, what do you mean by that, Paul? What does non negotiables mean?
Paul: Well, we have a lot of core values in the world. And if I ask an organization, what are your core values? Most of the time they tell me, well, we have a day that with the management team, we went somewhere, and we decided that the core values are being respectful, integrity, trustworthy. And those words. For me, that says nothing. It’s a non negotiable if all the employees in the organization believe that that core value has become non-negotiable within the organization.
So whatever we do, we need to walk our talk. We need to align with what we’re saying. So a non negotiable is that deep belief that your organization is there for this purpose, for this mission. And that can be partly creating more money and creating profit. But I call it profitability 2.0. It’s not only for the shareholder, it’s for all the stakeholders, and then we can make core values become non-negotiables.
Nicole: I love that. So it is also core values 2.0 is what I’m hearing, right?
Paul: Absolutely. And I must say a good friend of mine, Sam Silverstein, from the US, he is an expert on non-negotiables. The funny thing is he told me this story five, six years ago.
Nicole: Share it with us.
Paul: We were talking about how can we create more engagement within an organization? And he told the same story about the Happy State Bank, which is in Happy, Texas.
Nicole: I love it.
Paul: Yeah, I didn’t believe it, but I looked it up. So it’s so funny. And the CEO of that bank said, family always comes first. Number two, do your job, dammit. The combination of those two means that if you have an issue with your kids or with your family, they come first.
Nicole: Take care of it, yeah.
Paul: Take care of it. Solve it, be happy with it. So if your son or daughter has some sort of thing going on at school, be there and enjoy it. By the way, you need to do your job. But what you saw in that bank is that people left at 4pm, and came back at 6pm to finish their work. So people were entitled to decide themselves, because they were trusted by the CEO, to do what they needed to do.
And then people are much more engaged. And that’s what he hoped for. He didn’t count on it, but he hoped for that people will say, well, okay, I left one hour early, but tomorrow morning, I will start one hour early, because I need to finish my work. And it needs to be done. And all the management was trained to help the people to make that decision. So, and I love that story. And I think that is that always possible.
And then you think that’s not going to work in real life. And then I started practicing it in organization. Looking at it, and it works. Because what we see is that people are 20% more productive when they are engaged. So suddenly, if I work six hours instead of eight, my productivity is as high as eight hours. And suddenly we think, hmm, maybe it works. You can’t count on it, because it has to be true.
You need to really encourage people to be engaged to believe what you say. So you can’t have core values that are made by the Board of Directors only and not shared with the others. It needs to be top down, bottom up. And we all need to believe it. And that works best if it’s more horizontal, because then I can have a chat with you and say, hey, this is what I saw. This is one of our non-negotiables. And I saw that there is a conflict in how you act on this.
How can I support you? And then I become the supporter instead of the controller telling you, hey, you didn’t follow my rules. And now I will kick you out. It’s not wise, because there is a shortage of employees. So it’s better to ask them, hey, I see you are getting disconnected. How can I support you to be aligned again? What do you need from me? That’s a totally different question. And if a CEO can ask that question, then I think that’s the start to become a good organization.
Nicole: Yeah, that’s great. Yeah. So everybody who’s in charge of a team in charge of a company, write that down. What do you need from me in order to get aligned with our core values? That is a fantastic question. And don’t miss that was the Happy State Bank and Happy, Texas. Did I get my notes right? Okay. I absolutely love that. I think that’s a fantastic story. All right. So, we get our mindset in place. We figure out what our core values are. And I also kind of heard you say, Paul, not only do we figure them out, they just don’t go on some plaque on the wall. We’re watching for them, they become non negotiables, active living principles we live by, and we hold people accountable.
Paul: Yeah, the point is what you see if you have them on the wall, and I know a big insurance company, the biggest in the Netherlands have the 10 of them on the wall. And I asked all the people that entered the room, and I said, well, did you see those core values that were on the wall and people that work there could mention three or four but not 10.
Nicole: No. Ten’s too many anyway.
Paul: Go back to four or five and start every workshop that you have team meetings with. Okay, guys, this time, I want to have a word with you about core value number three. What does it mean to you and how can we support you to live that value? That takes five minutes, but it resets the people. Okay, this is a core value. This is how I get engaged. This is how I can serve my organization much better.
So if you believe it, if you truly live it, then people will believe it. And you have great examples in the US. Zappos. Maybe you heard of it, they sell shoes online. They have family core values. If you want to work there, you need to fit in those family core values. Otherwise they give you money to leave. Because it’s cheaper that you leave, then that you say. That’s the belief in core values, and they sell shoes online.
Nicole: Yeah, boatloads of them, by the way. Yeah. And one of their core values, correct me if I’m wrong Paul, but isn’t one of them, like, be a little weird, is like one of their core values. Like they really believe in being unique and individualism. And if you’ve ever just Google what the home office looks like at Zappos, and then everybody’s cubicle is crazy. And it’s just a lot of fun.
Paul: The first one is deliver wow through service. And I think three or four years I was in the in the US for a speaker conference. Yeah. In Vegas, yeah. I called him. And somebody told me there was a Nike shoe that wasn’t available anymore. And I just called him. 10pm. And I said, all I’m leaving for the Netherlands in two days, I want to have that Nike shoe.
Can you deliver them? And he said, well, did you look online? I said, yeah, of course I did. And he said, well, we don’t have it anymore in stock. And I said, oh, that’s a pity. He said, wait, wait, wait, I’ll look for you. Within two minutes, he gave me the website names of two competitors, who still had them on the website. That’s delivered wow through service, because I’m telling the story.
Nicole: And so we’re gonna go find shoes on Zappos. As soon as we get done here.
Paul: It’s so funny. If you tell the story, people think they are insane. No, they are engaged. That’s delivering happiness as they separated another company. And I work through the lines of the company Delivering Happiness of Jenn Lim.
Nicole: Yeah, that’s fantastic. I love Zappos. In fact, they have another thing, you’re probably familiar with this, too. They have a yearbook that they do. And so you know, remember what, I don’t know how they do in the Netherlands. But in North Carolina, we would get our yearbook in high school, and everybody would go around, you’d sign your yearbook. And so they do the same thing at Zappos every year, which I think is fantastic.
Paul: With now about 1800 people. So it’s amazing how they started and how big they are. But they are an example which I use in Europe to say, hey look, if an American Anglo-Saxon organization can do it, why aren’t we doing the same? Right? I think making profit and being good for the shareholders is important, but you have stakeholders as well. You said human beings, I hate the word human resources. Then I’m a resource. I’m less than a computer, a table.
Nicole: Pens, pencils.
Paul: So that’s the mindset as well. If you say you’re a human being I value you, I trust you. I would love to hear your opinion. How can we improve? I give you authority, and authority is one of the three pieces that works on engagement.
Nicole: All right, well, what are the other two? Let’s talk about them. One is authority. What are the others?
Paul: Number two is belonging.
Nicole: Okay, belonging.
Paul: What you saw during Covid that a lot of people work from home. And a lot of mental issues came up, which we researched with psychologists in the world, and it’s connected to that belonging. A lot of people lost the belonging, being part of a team that met every week, every two weeks. You don’t need to see them every day. But you need to meet that physical part is so important. So belonging is number two.
And number three, the right competencies. And we have job descriptions, but competencies are focused on talents. That’s something different. Your talent can be much broader, much more creative than what your job description asked from you. So that’s the ABC and we add purpose to it as well, but that’s what I already mentioned.
And the fun part is in Dutch purpose means doelstelling with a D. So we have A, B, C, D. But in English, it doesn’t work, because it’s A, B, C, P. But P is important as well, the meaning, the purpose of what you want to do.
Nicole: Yeah, yeah, that’s fantastic. All right. So let’s talk about giving people authority. Why are leaders reluctant? Or I don’t know if it’s reluctance or like unconsciousness. What do you think it is? Maybe a combo?
Paul: It’s, I think, a combo. But like I said, the best employee becomes the manager, the leader.
Nicole: Yeah. And he may not even be a good leader, right? Perhaps it’s competencies, as you just mentioned,
Paul: But it’s most of the time, the money you get at the end of your group. And if you want to earn more, you need to become a leader. And you miss the best employee, and you have the worst leader. That’s what I tell in presentations. But that’s not always true, of course. But what I see is that if you are the best employee, you like to tell the others how to do their job. If I stopped doing that, and ask them, how can we improve the process?
How can we improve the product? And I listened to them, there comes the listening and the trust again, and I’m open minded to them, I will give them authority to create that open atmosphere to be creative. And I used the slogan if I make more mistakes than you I will win. Because if I’m more creative, I will make more mistakes.
But I will have at the end much more authority, much more creativity, inspiration than others. So it’s not that you need to say to them, you’re now in charge. But you can just ask them, this is our current process. How can we improve this process? And then you give every level, you give a human being that authority to give advice to make suggestions. It’s not that difficult.
Nicole: No, it’s not. It’s not. And again, if you like you said, and you should be writing this stuff down. Listening and trust. So that listening and trust piece, you know, one thing that I think leaders need to understand is so important is what having what I call a one on one with their employees. And like having this on the calendar, I recently taught a you’re not going to like this Paul, a human resources class, that’s what they call it.
But anyways, I was teaching it. And a human beings class. And so I was teaching it and this young lady is in there. Oh, my gosh, so vibrant. Dare, I say that. And she is full of energy. She’s in her late 20s. And she’s like, my boss, books, these one on ones with me, and cancels them constantly. I was like, oh, honey, I’m sorry. I said, you know, you need to tell her, you need to coach up. You need to coach up, you need to say, you know, you scheduled these with me and you canceled them.
And you know, we haven’t had one in three months, or whatever it is. So in the very effort of trying to build a place to listen and build trust, she’s ruining it totally. So what advice do you have for leaders about giving one on ones? Because, I mean, I got lots of ideas, but they’re like, what should I talk to them about? I’m like, I don’t know. business acumen, the future, the goals. I mean, there’s a lot of stuff to talk about. What do you think?
Paul: I think, again, it’s that open question, how can I support you to do a better job. And a suggestion for one on ones, go for a walk, because psychologically, if we are sitting opposite to one another, we focus on one person. If we walk outside, next to one another, we have an open space. And psychologists say if you have an open space, you create an open mind. So an employee and you can do a walk for 20 minutes, and have a cup of coffee somewhere at the bar or whatever.
Just go out, have a walk, relax and say, how can I be of service to you? How can I support you? What are your needs? And then people have an open mind because you’re walking beside them. And they will tell you anything. If I’m sitting in my office opposite, I’m still the boss. I’m not that open minded person. So I started doing this seven, eight years ago, and I was surprised by the opening that people gave.
And I was helping people who were disabled, who had medical issues, they needed to go back to work. But they had that blockage to make that step. And then I said, let’s walk and we had a river and at the end, 15 minutes, on the shore, there was a coffee shop. We walked off there, had a coffee, and walked back. Within an hour, all problems were solved 90% of the time.
Why? Because people said we had an open conversation. No, we were walking next to one another and that created that open atmosphere. And I thought, this is so easy, and so silly. When I tell the story to all management, they all say wow, what a suggestion, and I think it’s not that hard to invent.
Nicole: It’s not rocket brain science, is it?
Paul: No! But on the other end, it has to do with brains. And it has to do with positive psychology. It needs to work. How can I give you the feeling that whatever you say, you are important. And when I sit the opposite of you, a lot of spaces are telling me oh, this is not relevant. I can’t do this. This is so boring. If I walk next to you, I can’t see your face. So it gives me much more trust to tell my story. So just simple suggestion.
Nicole: Yeah, it reminds me of when my kids were teenagers. You know, I sit across from my kid at the dining room table, it doesn’t go so hot, I put my kid in the car. In the passenger seat. We’re driving down the road, and I ask questions, I’m getting a lot more conversation going here. So that’s how you know it works.
Paul: It works. And it’s so funny that we create that official atmosphere. And they were in the office, we are distracted by mails, by Whatsapp, by people walking in. Exclude that kind of stuff. And of course it won’t work if I work for a healthcare organization, they have one manager on 80 human beings. Eight zero. I can’t plan these meetings. Because then I’m walking the whole day.
Nicole: But I am getting my steps in, so.
Paul: Oh, yeah, and I need to do my steps as well. But you need to have a good span of control that you can say I wanted to chat with you every three or four months. And we’d go for a walk. And it will be amazing how it works. So the suggestion, just try it once and see how it works.
Nicole: Yeah, and what you’re saying is kind of making this thing bubble up in my mind. You know, I had a leader one time I was telling him, your people, you know, want to hear from you. And he’s like, they know what they’re doing. I’m like, that’s not the point. They want to know you care. And I remember when I was young gal, I mean, if the president from the home office was coming, this was a huge deal in my mind.
And I think, you know, sometimes we get to a certain level, and we’re like, they’re fine. They’re not fine. They need, just like when your grandpa comes to visit, or your grandma comes to visit you want to spend time with grandma and grandpa, you know, because they’ve got wisdom and experience and lessons and wisdom, all this great stuff.
Paul: They make you feel that you belong to the family and that you’re part of that family. That you are important for them as well. So yeah, it’s not that difficult. But a lot of CEOs are on the top floor, so they don’t see people and I was in an organization where the C suite had their own elevator to the top floor.
Nicole: Oh, yeah. I’ve been there, too. That’s crazy.
Paul: And next to the main entrance they had their own parking lots. And I thought, this is not the company I want to work for. So I told them, I’m not going to work with you. Because I want your car to be at the end of the parking lot. And you’re sitting downstairs next to the girl at the reception because that’s where you hear what’s going on in your business. Not when you’re on the top floor with your separate elevator. It’s so silly. It’s all so old fashioned.
Nicole: And very expensive, very expensive too. Two elevators to operate. That’s ridiculous. All right. Well, I want to ask about this because I do have your paper and let me mention it again. It is the role of the value to profit model in the 21st century organization. How employee engagement impacts both corporate goals and profitability. Happiness makes money.
So I know that I got a lot of listeners, a lot of human beings in the human resource office that need to understand this. So you have a thing on here, you say the criticality of employability. So that’s a lot of itities and abilities. Will you talk about what that means for us?
Paul: Well, that’s what I mean with happiness makes money, to make it simple. If we create more engagement, we know by research that Gallup did, but I wrote a book and I found 16 different issues on which engagement has a positive influence. So for example, in the Netherlands, we pay sick leave for two years. So when you’re ill, we will pay your income for the next two years. An employer does.
So we have influence on what we can do with you. What we see if engagement goes up, sick leave goes down with almost 40%. But also the number of incidents go down. The number of failures go down, productivity goes up. Gallup has seven, we call it the seven keys of talent management engagement. What you can see that sick leave goes down, productivity goes up, mistakes go down, customer experience goes up, effectiveness goes up.
So it’s critical that we work on engagement. And in the US, engagement is above 30%. But in Europe, it’s less than 15%. And we have more people out that are fully disengaged than people that are engaged. So what you see is if you would make a car, you have the people in front who are engaged and people that are back, holding it back, which is 17, 18% and upfront 50, the car is moving. In the US, Gallup says 35% is fully engaged, but 25% is fully disengaged, they don’t want to work with you.
Well, we need them. So we need to work hard, not only working on the satisfied people that are in that car just waiting to move. No, we need to work on people that are fully disengaged, because something happened in their life that made them fully disengaged. And if we have enough people waiting for jobs, that we don’t care, nowadays, we need them all.
So we need to work harder that people are not dropped out from the organization. So if you see somebody who doesn’t like his work anymore, help them to find a new job. So go from job to job, because maybe they are more engaged in another situation than with your organization. And what do we do? We fire them, and we let them be. And I think that’s not wise.
Nicole: Yeah. Well, there is human potential that we can, you know, extrapolate out of these folks if we want to do the work. Because that’s just the question. Do we want to do the work of talent development, employee development. But you talk about there’s a connection between profitability and employee development. So pay attention, everybody, because this is what Paul and I do for a living is we help you develop your voice. It will make you more money, we promise. So tell us all about it, Paul.
Paul: Yeah, well, it is funny that we are on the same track, and that we still need to convince other people that it’s.
Nicole: That training is important. I mean come on.
Paul: Because if you finish high school, or university or whatever, you have technical information. That’s right. But you are at the start of your life. So you will have a lot of experiences that can form you, that can change you, that will influence you. And sometimes you’re not sure what your way is. And I love to walk the Camino and you know, the movie The Way from Martin Sheen. I walked it twice.
Nicole: Wow. Congratulations, by the way.
Paul: Thank you. It’s not about reaching Santiago, it’s about the way that you going. The way that you get up every morning and that you make that first step. Sometimes we need to help people to make that first step into whatever position into whatever productivity area, just develop their talents. Because people are much more talented than we think. But we put them in a job description and tell them this is your role. This is what you need to do. And if they say yes, but.
Say no, no, this is your job. Do what you need to do. No, we need to train them. And maybe they will say thank you very much and I will do something else. Well, lucky you. Then at least you use your potential. So what we do is create more potential. And then people will be much more flexible. And when they’re flexible, profitability goes up. Because they can fit in somewhere else where we really need them, instead of doing the job that they did, so train them, spend money on them.
We know from wellbeing research in the UK that if you put $1 in, you will get $4 out. So a lot of people say yeah, what’s the return of investment? And I call it the ripple of impact. How much impact can we organize by giving people the trust, the money, the facilities to train themselves to become better human beings? Because they will be much more positive and engaged then what you have now?
Nicole: Yeah, 100%? Yep. So profitability and employee development go together, like peanut butter and jelly. Creates a ripple of impact. I love it. Okay, and so you’ve shared with us, you know that we’ve got to give people autonomy, belonging, competencies. And then what is the word that begins with a D?
Paul: Doelstelling.
Nicole: Oh, my gosh, how do you spell that? We don’t have time for you to spell it. That’s too much.
Paul: No, but it’s meaning and purpose.
Nicole: Meaning and purpose. That’s right. And then you talked about culture, behavior, and core values, how absolutely imperative they are. I love that. So we’re almost at the top of the hour. This time has just flown by, you know. People are like, wait, don’t let Paul go. One more nugget, we need one more nugget from Paul. So what would be some last piece of wisdom that you would share with us?
And again, I want you to know, you can get Paul’s, we’ll attach it to the show notes, The role of value to profit model in the 21st century organizations. How employee engagement impacts both corporate goals and profitability. Happiness makes money. So you can get your hands on this and sit around the table and dialogue about how you might get some of this going.
Paul: And what I like to give as well, I have on my website, we will add in the papers as well, a link to an engagement benchmark survey, which is free. We don’t want anything out of it. What we like to do is to ask leaders to imagine how engaged their team is. It’s 16 questions. You give the answers by going from zero to 10. Ten is the most.
Nicole: Likert scale. Yeah.
Paul: And you will get an average of what you think the engagement within your team is. And then you can download it, you go to your team and say, this is what I think. How about you? And then you have the discussion. It’s 16 questions you can do four times four. It’s a lovely instrument to look at better engagement within your team compared to other organizations. And it’s for free.
Nicole: Yeah, and you can do that in one of those one on ones, right.
Paul: Oh, absolutely. Walking outside. Down the riverside.
Nicole: There you go. Yeah, I want to give a shout out. There’s a company here, well, actually, they’re in South Carolina, right over the border of Charlotte, North Carolina. And they, it’s a broadcasting organization and they have a beautiful campus. When people, listen to this, Paul. When people join their organization, they give them a Fitbit. Not the $20 Fitbit. Like the $300 Fitbit, like on day one. And they do all their walking and talking outside.
It’s really fantastic. Yeah, so people are out there doing this stuff, ladies and gentlemen, we just got to, you know, get in there and advocate to get it in place. Well, I know that people want to find where they can get a hold of you get a hold of your paper. Get a hold of the survey. So will you give us your contact information, please?
Paul: Well, the simplest one is go to LinkedIn type in my name. All the contact information is available on LinkedIn and I have videos on YouTube as well. Just fill in my name and you will find the videos.
Nicole: Okay. And let me spell it for you. It’s Paul, p a u l. Then it’s ter, t e r Wal, w a l. And so you can go in, you can find him on LinkedIn and he will connect with you and maybe help you create some happiness and make more money.
Paul: Absolutely.
Nicole: All right fantastic, Paul. Hey everybody, if you enjoyed this episode of Build a Vibrant Culture, what you need to do is click subscribe and then it’ll just show right up in your inbox every week. And in addition to that, if you would like this episode and make a comment, I tell you what, if you’ll make a comment, I bet you Paul and I will get back to you and let you know our answer. So let’s keep the conversation going. It’s been so great to be with you. Thanks so much for showing up and being so vibrant.
Paul: Thank you, Nicole. It was lovely to be on your show.
Voiceover: Ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her strategies, systems and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email Nicole@nicolegreer.com. And be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at nicolegreer.com.
