Want an easy, 5-step method to build your vision and strategy?
What about a system to determine your team’s superpowers?
Michael King is here to break down his T.E.A.M.S. Methodology and the Enneagram of Personality.
These tools will help you define your gameplan—and then determine how to leverage your team’s unique gifts to enact it.
Michael is a pastor turned Executive Coach who uses these systems to help high-level business leaders transform their teams and achieve their goals.
Listen to find out:
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Why self-leadership is the key to team-leadership
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How to communicate expectations to your team
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The meaning of discernment
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And more
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Michael King: We spend so much time trying to implement things that were meant for somebody else into the thing that that we’re doing that we sometimes we just lose our way. We become something that we weren’t intended to do in the first place, which leads to leader burnout, which is massive.
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast with professional speaker, coach and consultant Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer, and I am absolutely delighted today to have as guest on my show, I have none other than Michael King. He’s a pastor turned sought after executive coach. He’s an executive coach that helps high level business leaders achieve measurable business growth through his proprietary T.E.A.M.S. Methodology. And I totally want to hear about this methodology. Please welcome to the show, Michael King. How are you today, Michael?
Michael: Doing great. Doing great. Thank you so much for having me.
Nicole: Yeah, so you are a pastor, and now you are a sought after executive coach. I just am so curious, tell me about that journey. If you can share a little bit about that?
Michael: Well, first and foremost, this is top notch secret information, like nobody should actually know. I’m just messing with you. But you know, for the for the last for for close to two decades of my of my leadership career actually just part of my you know, I would say calling of working with leaders and entrepreneurs and, and world impact agents, I spent part of my time being in the world, actually still in the Christian music industry, you know, working with, with artists and actually being an artist.
And then somewhere in that journey, I became an executive pastor for close to a decade speaking at conferences, leading a staff that was impacting a multisite church, and absolutely loved the journey. And somewhere around 2015 and 2016. And you know, it’s one of those things when, when you’re a part of something that’s working, generally what ends up happening is it starts to spill out to the outside and and you start getting pulled in some different directions to be able to help other organizations experience the same type of success and, and help them navigate probably some familiar spaces that you’ve been in and as well.
So around 2015 started just a sense that maybe just maybe my impact was going to be different for this next season of my life. And I had no idea what that would was going to look like. It was a scary leap. But in 2018, we started teams.coach, and it’s been an amazing journey. I still do help out about I’d say probably 20% of what we do, we still help out faith community and, and coach pastors and whatnot. But about 80% of what we do is really working with C level leaders, from you know, fortune 500 companies all the way down to entrepreneur space. And it has been a blast. I couldn’t be more, you know, just absolutely blown away by what we get to do.
Nicole: It’s so fun, right? I love doing coaching. It’s fantastic. Yeah. And so I’m a god, girl. So I find all sorts of ways to work god into the coaching process. I feel like, you know, he’s everywhere. Have you heard this, Michael? He’s everywhere? It’s an omni presence thing, you know?
Michael: It is, and I you know, and for me, it’s one of those things where I was literally just talking to somebody about this the other day to where it’s, you know, like, as far as who we are, as people, we’re really broken up into these three specific areas. And, you know, mind, body and spirit. And faith is really the fuel that keeps our spirit alive. And so I don’t really, it doesn’t really matter to me, is it necessarily as far as you went, when I get a chance to work with clients as far as whether they’re would consider themselves a god person or not?
I do believe that everybody deserves the opportunity to experience hope. And so when I first started in, you know, working as an executive pastor, and in our I’m sorry, as an executive coach, finished out my master’s degree, you know, and started working with leaders outside the space, I kind of joked around by saying, hey, we kind of want to keep that confidential, top secret information, you know. But because I wanted to make sure that I was sensitive to those that that wanted to make sure that they knew that I didn’t have an agenda when it came to their own personal faith walk or their spiritual experience.
But what I’ve noticed that along the way is that is that there is something that unifies all of us, and we all experience the same pain points, we all bleed the same. This is not an us versus them. This is literally about just simply us. And really, you know, I think everybody deserves that opportunity to experience hope. And I’m just thankful I get to be a part of that conversation.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. So I am collecting definitions of leadership. And so I’m wondering, what’s your definition of leadership?
Michael: My definition of leadership has to do with well, first and foremost, you’ve heard this before, but if you call yourself a leader, but you find yourself out by yourself without anybody actually following you, you’re just out for a walk alone. You’re not really a leader. So a leader is somebody who has the cognitive the emotional and psychological emotional ability to be able to recognize that they have a responsibility to impact and influence the spaces that they already exist within. So that’s my, my big awareness piece. And my best probably, you know, reflection on that, is that and the reason why I said that the way that I said it was because some of the best leaders are the ones that I found out that didn’t even know that they’re influencers in the first place.
Nicole: Yeah, they’re just moving through the world and like a really powerful way. And I think using a lot of times the quality of their character to, you know, surprise and delight, the people around them. They’re like I want to hang out with Michael more, you know, and then and then you have all those friends walking down the road with you, right?
Michael: That’s exactly it. It’s the it’s the, it’s the folks that have, again, you the emotional, the psychological, the relational, the, you know, sometimes the spiritual, but it’s when those those folks have high, high enough sense of awareness to recognize that the spaces that they’re in right now, today is, is the most impactful spaces they could ever be. And they allow those spaces to, to, to transcend that moment to make a bigger influence and to make a bigger indent in the world that they live in. So I love that. And I’m glad that we got to talk about that a little bit.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I love what you’re saying it matches up a little bit. With this practice I have, I also have a coaching methodology. It’s called SHINE, and the E and shine is all about energy. And so I say that, you know, leaders have an intellectual energy, emotional energy, spiritual energy, social energy, physical energy, and the energy of money. Those are all the things that they have to pay attention to. So you and I are on the same page in terms of you know, how you can influence people out there. So I love that. So we’re meshing already, Michael. Alright, so tell me a little bit about your proprietary T.E.A.M.S. Methodology. Because I think one of the greatest skills a leader can have is putting together teams of amazing people to carry out mission. So talk a little bit about what’s the T stand for?
Michael: T stands for targets. So you know, not like Target versus Walmart, but like Target.
Nicole: That’s fighting words. You’re gonna get people all upset talking Target and Walmart. Don’t do that. That would be upsetting.
Michael: You don’t man. It’s like those are two tribes that you don’t want to see battling each other. No, yeah, no, target is so what’s the bullseye? And are you able to clearly identify it? And there’s, you know, I think one of the one of the when it comes to specifically when I’m working with teams, reason why we started targets, just simply this. Is that more teams than not, the reason why most people are failing when it comes to even just operating their teams in the first place is because they forgot what the bullseye was, or it was never defined in the first place. So we really, we really start with with that as being the primary place to start with our T.E.A.M.S. Methodology.
Nicole: Yeah, yeah, people got to figure out where we’re going. Yeah. And so when you talk about the target, I’m also kind of getting this idea of like vision, right? And so we know without a vision that people will perish. So so how does how does that tie in with vision? Targets and vision?
Michael: Well, when it comes to just the downstream of target, you know, the, with every organization that you that you’re with, that I’m working with, whether it’s a C level leader, or whether it’s some team member, or a team leader, the things that need to be clearly identified are the vision, the values, the behaviors, the attributes of the team player. Culture really kind of takes its place when a target is clearly defined. If the organization doesn’t necessarily know, you know, what are we doing here in the first place, and what is the key objective, then it’s really easy for an organization to start to spin out, maybe even lose control a little bit, and we’ll talk about a little bit more of that as we get through the T.E.A.M.S. Methodology.
But I know that for, for me specifically. You know, there’s a lot of different books about like Traction, and just different operational systems and just different project management systems that you can really bring into play that can help your organization. But knowing that you’re hitting the bullseye and clearly defining what it is you’re trying to accomplish together. This is really the full functionality of a team and finding its purpose. So I think sometimes we end up trying to chase the wrong thing or putting the cart before the horse and end up chasing the wrong things.
So by making sure that we’ve we’ve been able to clearly identify our target our bullseye and making sure it lines up with our vision and our values. These are really quick leadership hacks per se, to making sure that we overcomplicate it on a week to week basis or even on a day to day basis. And in fact, when we talk about this T.E.A.M.S. Methodology, we have this all in digital format too, so through our teams.coach app. We have it where just even as a leader through a singularity in your own day to day life from a day to day basis, or if you want to download the free worksheet as far as how to run your team meeting using our methodology, these are things that we just give away. So feel free to reach out to me if there’s something that piques your curiosity on this.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And so you can go over to the website, you can go to teamscoach.carta.com. Do I have that right?
Michael: Actually if you just go to teams.coach as the website, it’ll, that’ll that’s really all you need.
Nicole: Yeah. Yeah, because he does have a whole bunch of downloadables on there. And, you know, the one that, that I downloaded today, which I thought was really fantastic. Let me pull it up here in a second, because I just really loved it. The what it’s like to work with, quote unquote, leader name. And so I think that this was a lot about targets, right? You know, so this is how you can work with your with your leader. You want to talk a little bit about this document, because I thought it was really fantastic.
Michael: Yeah, it was something that we developed because sometimes HR manuals, they just simply aren’t good enough when it comes to filling in the gray space. So when I’m working with a senior leader, and I’m even, you know, just a couple of the leaders that I’m working with right now, we’re actually in this space of their their own personalized coaching program, of getting rid of any of the ancillary noise that comes with being a leader.
So if you have anybody on your team that’s ever wondering, like, I wonder how you know, what Nicole really expects from me when it comes to responding to text messages. Or what is her communication policy, when it comes to, you know, what we do inside of slack, or email? Or what is what is the type of culture that Nicole wants to build with her with organization? This gives you the opportunity to be able to kind of define the rules of engagement, when it comes to working with you specifically as a leader.
To be clear, is to be kind. And getting some of these things just kind of out out in front, especially if you’ve on ramping new people onto your team. There’s nothing more powerful than a secure team member. And whatever you can do to help somebody become a little bit more secure and confident and know that their giftings and their purpose has a place in your team. This is this is a fantastic way to do that is just by setting those ground rules ahead of time.
Nicole: Yeah, it’s fantastic. Yeah. So you can go out there and get this document called what it’s like to work with quote unquote, leader name. And you can kind of formulate your own expectations for working with your team. You know, I’ve got this quote is probably the, I don’t know, so many times I tell this quote, but I love this, Michael. It was given to me by the master coach, I don’t know if you had a master coach. But my master coach said, uncommunicated expectations are a premeditated opportunity to be disappointed. And I was like, oh, my gosh, that is so good. That is so good.
And so this little document that Michael has got on his website for free, will totally help you set up expectations, so you’re not gonna get disappointed, right? Everybody’s on the same page. So I think that’s a great little target tool you’ve got right there. Alright, so setting targets is essential, right? So and I think, you know, people like to get bullseyes, they like to win, they like to know they’re doing well. We all have that kind of desire for approval and knowing that we’re on the right path. So I love your T. All right, so talk to me about E. What does the E stand for?
Michael: Yeah, so we start off with targets, and leaning into, you know, just clearly is the bullseye clearly identified. And then when we get to E, we, we bring this into just some self evaluation when it comes to the word engagement. Now we look at engagement from these three or four different perspectives, depending on kind of where you’re at with a new organization. But the first one is all about self leadership on a scale of one to 10. How well am I engaging with myself today? On a scale of one to 10, how well am I engaging with my team? On a scale of one to 10, how well am I engaging with my direct report? And then the last one, how well I’m engaging with my audience.
Now, the only reason why we put a numerical number next to it is just just so we can measure it over a period of time. And, you know, these subjective questions, which they are at best, that’s why it’s internal. It’s, we’re not asking anybody else to engage those three questions or those four questions regarding specifically you, but you’re the static leader in your life. And I think that that is something that is 100% important for you just to kind of kind of own that, and, and to be able to measure those things. Why you know, why do you feel a certain way on a specific day, but really amplifying engagement and tracking it? Those have been really important for us as a team, coaching organization.
Now, on this as well, emotional intelligence is probably one of the most important things that we’ll talk about in the next decade of leadership. Maybe even beyond that, to be honest with you, but the but the way that we lead teams in 2015, versus the way that we lead teams in 2022, they’re completely different. So if we’re not installing these types of measurable emotional intelligent agents within to our leadership systems, we’re setting ourselves up for failure. So that’s why we put it in there in the first place really is just to make sure that we’re being cognitively aware of how people feel about us and our leadership, and how we feel about the, the the environments that we’re actually leading in and impacting. Does that make sense?
Nicole: Yeah, it makes total sense. I think that, you know, I’ve read this statistic over and over that the number one thing that a leader can do is reflection, right? Slow down. Well, what are you doing?
Michael: Yeah, that’s it. So I have, I have two executive coaches in my life. So I spend Thursdays to kind of myself, my self feeding day, per se. I have three personal sessions, you know, sessions for myself on Thursdays, it’s with my counselor, and then I have two executive coaches that I hire, to help me navigate space and make sure that I’m on top of my self leadership game as best I can. And one of the things that I learned is my most valuable time that I have is when I create bandwidth for me to look out a window, and just just open that space up. And so that self reflection time is so key, so important.
Nicole: Yeah, and I think that your questions are really good, too, you know, because you’re, you’re breaking it down into the stakeholders that are part of your, part of your organization, right? So you’re looking at yourself, you’re looking at direct reports, or you’re looking at all the different things. And I think that looking at that is super important in terms of you know, how you’re going to build your character. You know, I’ve actually had leaders say to me, you know, I don’t care what people think I just want them to work. And I’m like, no, we got a long way to go. Because it’s like, you know, there’s a really great, powerful question, and I’ll let you borrow it, Michael if you don’t already have it in your toolbox.
I got it from Kathleen. Oh, I’m blanking on her last name right now. But Kathleen gave it to me. And she said, this is one of the best questions you can ask a leader. And the question is, what is it like to experience you? So she gave me that question, I put it into my pocket. I’m like, oh, this is the best question. And you know, oftentimes, leaders are like, I don’t know, I’ve never thought about it. And it’s like, you should definitely think about it. And so isn’t that great? Oh, god, it’s such a good question. I love that question. So anyway, so good. It is it is killer, it is killer. And, and so I think that’s as really, really powerful.
Because I don’t think a lot of leaders slow down to understand, you know, like, well, while you might have the title, everywhere you go, you’re putting off an energy that’s either, you know, pulling people towards you or repelling people away. So you get to you get to pick which one do you want to have. It’s totally your choice, right? So I think that’s fantastic. All right. So we’ve got engagement. We’ve got engagement is our E everybody. Is everybody writing this down? Get a pen, I know you’re on the treadmill, get your phone, make notes go slower for a moment. Okay, the A. The A in T.E.A.M.S., what is the A?
Michael: It’s action. It’s just your what’s the one thing that you’re committed to this week, or today that’s going to move, move the needle on your target? That’s it. So let’s go and break this down into just one specific thing. You know, I think sometimes when we talk about some of these traction systems, or even just project management systems, whatever, sometimes our targets just seem like they’re just a little bit too big to be consumed with one bite. And so it’s important for you as a leader to understand this as far as how you’re built, but also the people on your team. Is that sometimes you might have to break this down into some micro steps, micro action steps in order for you to accomplish the target in the first place. So I don’t know if you’re at all like me, Nicole, what, are you a fan of the Enneagram?
Nicole: Mm hmm. I love it. Yeah.
Michael: All right. So yeah, so I work with the Enneagram almost every single day with with with my clients. This is one of the this is one of the the assets and one of the tools that I’m certified in and I’m a one wing two. So what are you?
Nicole: I’m a three wing two. So you’re, you’re you’re just like my mentor Anne Sturette. Your are an Anne Sturette person which makes you fantastical by the way. And we get along fantastic because we both have two wing.
Michael: Yes, absolutely. I typically find that my best friends are wing twos, by the way, just to let you know. So we’ve we’ve started our friendship. Congratulations. So digital high five.
Nicole: Yay! So two’s we just, we just want everybody to get ahead and move on and be happy and be prosperous. That’s all we want in our lives, oh my god. Twos are awesome.
Michael: Absolutely. And we will avoid conflict like the plague. So keep it running. No, that’s that’s not always true. But I will say this, though, is that for me, though, looking at that action step of clearly identifying what’s the one thing that we’re going to do this week to move towards the target. Me being a one means that if if I, if I don’t see the needle moving, I might spin out a bit.
Like, so if I don’t see progress happening, I’ve learned enough about myself that if I don’t see progress happening, then I’m probably gonna end up faking it or creating something that’s going to help me win. So, in fact, that’s how I actually started my, my my study program back in 2015. 2014, 2015 when I decided to go back to school to get my Master’s in leadership. I didn’t even know executive coaching was a thing, by the way. I had no idea. I was like.
Nicole: Yeah, a lot of people still don’t. It’s sad. You and I are going to fix that.
Michael: That’s right. Let’s do it. So the pain point that you and I have, though, is that we’ve we’ve entered into this world, where it’s like, okay, we’ve done our work, you know, my master’s program I went through that was roughly about three years long. So I have a master’s in leadership, and a master’s in executive coaching. And I didn’t I, I stepped into that, by accident, because I didn’t know that it was necessarily a thing. Now I’m in this space to where it’s like things are going really good. We’re making an impact. And we’re literally seeing leaders grow in ways that are just incredibly significant.
And I’ve found out the pain point of recognizing there’s a difference between somebody who’s an executive coach and somebody who’s just a personality. And trying to figure out ways to making sure that you’re surrounding yourself with the right tribe, and valuing the right things is incredibly important in this work that you and I do. So I can’t stress that enough. But I went back, my point of that story is just like I actually went back to school because of the pain points I was experiencing with the team that I was currently on. It was I was working at, I was working at a mega church, four different campuses, but close to 3000 people in it’s in which I’d helped.
I’d been there from the time it was like roughly around 500 till the time it was close to 3000 as the executive pastor running the day to day operations, and in developing the leadership pipeline. What I hadn’t noticed was all the times that I had said yes, to bringing on people that were really close relatives of the of the lead pastor, and one or two steps removed from being immediate relatives and whatnot. That it had started to hit, just kind of a pain point of me feeling stuck. So I decided I was going to go back to school because I’m a one, I’m gonna go, you know what I’m gonna go find out what the solution is to this problem.
And that’s how I stumbled into this was literally by creating an action step to move towards a target. I found a whole new completely awesome identity and additional amplified purpose through this journey. So I have zero regrets on on me finding myself in the middle of that. But yeah, I think that I think you probably have some listeners out there that are going to relate to that A of that, of our T.E.A.M.S. Methodology of just going okay. Yes, let’s find, let’s find that one action step that’s going to take us towards hitting our target.
Nicole: Yeah. And I agree with you, you know, and everybody’s probably heard this one, you know, you got to eat the elephant, one bite at a time or whatever. But being able to get that small win too, you know, is is is a spiritual thing, right. You know, it’s like when you when you get a win you’re working in your talent, your skills, your purpose, you’re seeing the vision actually manifest before your eyes. I mean, it’s you get more excited or more spirited, right. You go up the feeling scale. And so figuring out that next right step is fantastic. And, gosh, I just love your story. I think it’s so good that you found your true purpose and identity through doing this work. All right, everybody. So the A is action. What is your next right, step towards your targets? All right. Okay. All right. So that is fantastical. All right. So now we’ve got M. What is the M?
Michael: M. M is momentum. Now here’s the thing. As a leader, I look at M, I coach people through M a little bit differently when I talk about momentum. This is not about what you can add to your plate to go faster. This is about you understanding that you have the responsibility to identify the things in your life that are currently slowing you down. Are you empowered enough to remove them? Are you do you have the authority to be able to say yes or no to the things that are slowing you down? And so I think M is kind of the secret sauce. If there’s two two things that are the kind of the secret sauce in our in our methodology that we just see leaders just really making big progress. It’s number one, not adding more things to your plate so you can go faster. It’s not buying the new program.
It’s not you know, subscribing to your the latest, you know, project management system or whatever curriculum that you feel like you need to put into play. This is really about identifying clearly okay, who am I? What am I supposed to be doing in the first place? What in my life am I spending a lot of time on that just feels like I’m not going anywhere and it’s slowing me down? Do I have permission to either change it, adapt it or remove it? And so momentum has everything to do with just really identifying the things that that, you know, kind of make us feel like we’re just treading through mud. So M, momentum.
Nicole: Yeah. So, I’m hearing, I got another good one for you, Michael. So I got this one from Dan Sullivan. So he is a coach person. Love me some Dan. And so he says, obstacles, things that slow us down, are actually the raw material for the strategy that will get us going. Right? So you know while you might look out into your leadership world and go, oh, I’ve got this problem. I got this issue and and you said three words really fast. I want you to say them again, you said I could, I could do this to my problem, this to my problem, or this to the my problem. Remove it something. What were your three things?
Michael: Change it, adapt it or remove it.
Nicole: I love it. Okay, everybody write that down, write it down, people. Change it, adapt it or remove it. So I think a lot of times we want to like stick our head in the sand and not even look at the problems because we got too many. But Dan Sullivan again, look him up everybody would say that’s the raw material for what’s going to give you the momentum. Right? And I mean, that’s exactly what you’re saying. So if this is the issue, let me change it, adapt it or remove it. And then all of a sudden, I’m rollin. And I’m also reminded of, I know, you know, John Maxwell. He also don’t miss this, he paved the way for people like Michael King. He’s a pastor becomes a coach, an amazing person.
So so he talks about how you could have a locomotive, and you know, it stopped and you put like cinder blocks in front of the front wheels of that locomotive. And like you can, you know, stoke the fire, get the coals hot, you know, get the steam going in a locomotive is not going anywhere, because there’s these two blocks, right? And then he says, you know, but here’s the thing, take the blocks away, stoke the coals, get the steam, however, all that you know, all of you train people call me. But anyways, so the trains moving, right. And so the train is moving, and then you could have a wall cemented together of cinder blocks, and the things gonna crash right through it, you know, and then and I love that imagery.
Because that’s what you’re what you’re saying. So, when people, you know, have these obstacles, these problems, and they’re trying to get momentum, I’m going to use it. I’m going to use a churchy word on you. So how, how do you encourage leaders to do discernment? I kind of heard discernment in your E. Right. But, you know, I find that people aren’t very discerning. And it’s a challenging thing to teach. So how do you get them to discern what their problems are? What if they could change, adapt?
Michael: Remove. Yeah, and so the difference between changing and adapting, by the way is so changing means, you know, flipping it out to something different, you know. It’s like identifying, okay, maybe my system or my structure. Maybe I’ve actually built this rightly, but maybe I just have the wrong components in play in the first place. And so it’s just not moving along, as well as I need to. So is there something that we need to change along the way? Or do I have the right thing here, but maybe I just need to tweak it a bit? Maybe there’s something and then the third option is like, do I just need to remove it? Okay. Discernment is a brilliant question, by the way. And I don’t know necessarily.
Yeah, I don’t I you know, I don’t know of another concept content, or another context that I’ve actually heard that used, except for in, in a church environment. But I do think it’s, I think it’s relevant, no matter what environment that you are in. Here’s the thing is that the things that get us in trouble the most is when we start chasing down things that were never meant for us in the first place. And so, I like the word imposter, just because it’s so powerful and pungent. You know, what I mean?
It’s like, when you talk about the word imposter, you’re either going to find somebody that’s going to really, really empathize with you, or you’re going to use the word imposter and someone’s gonna want to punch you in the face. You know, it’s just one of those words, but we, but what we find is that imposter on the proactive side of it is us actually embracing the idea that maybe we’re going to pretend with intent to be something that we’re not. Or we have imposter syndrome, which is us, actually not believing that we’re actually good enough to be in the spaces that we’re in, or we’re not, we don’t actually don’t believe that we are who we really truly are.
And both of these things, they’re both kind of parallel universes of the lack of progress. But when we talk about this idea of discernment, and you know, and to talk specifically, in you know, you brought up churchy type terminology. I’m gonna go ahead and continue down that lane just because I don’t need to talk too much in that space. But here’s the thing is that I spend more time than not week to week talking at an organizational level, with organizations trying to be something that they’re not. They saw something with another click funnel, they saw something with another marketing campaign, they saw something from another product maybe that a competitor is offering.
In the church space, we see programs and processes that are being offered at other churches. We see other worship records or other marketing things that are being done. Or assimilation programs or discipleship programs. And we just automatically think that that there for us if they’re working somewhere else. We spend so much time trying to implement things that were meant for somebody else into the thing that that we’re doing, that we sometimes we just lose our way. We become something that we weren’t intended to do in the first place, which leads to leader burnout, which is massive.
I can’t tell you enough that the David that is in the book, in the Psalms, that finds himself sitting on the top of his house looking over at something that’s not his is the same spirit sometimes that we have as leaders when we’re looking at things that aren’t ours and wanting them, but they’re never meant for us in the first place. So we have to be reminded of just that discerning spirit of just going okay, really, what am I intended for him? What am I supposed to be doing in the first place and knowing truly who I am because self leadership out of everything that we talked about, with the T.E.A.M.S Methodology, it always comes down to are you really managing yourself the best way possible?
Are you leading yourself the best way possible? And trusting your gut that when something does pop up, that doesn’t necessarily feel like it’s the space that you’re supposed to be in having the ability and the authority to be able to make the changes and adapt and move, where you’ll find yourself getting into trouble. And probably even in your own personal coaching practice, you’re gonna find the highest levels of leader burnout are the ones where a leader ends up feeling stuck, because they don’t have the authority to make the changes or the inability to actually make the changes in the life when they’re when they’re absolutely 100% necessary. At the time when it’s necessary. That was a lot. Wasn’t that a lot? That was just like me just fire hosing you for a second.
Nicole: Oh, no, no, it’s all good. I loved it. And, and, you know, and I think the thing about discernment is, like, you know, we’re so quick, you know, like, we want momentum, right? Like, hello, we want to get the wheels rolling on our locomotive or whatever. But, but also there’s times to go slower, be more thoughtful, and here, I’ll throw some more kind of churchy words at you. So I picked up this these two words along the way. And I just, I think they have so much power. It’s like when you try on a situation kind of in your mind, right? Like, you could do this when you’re doing your reflection is like, okay, well, what if we did try this strategy?
Or we put this in place? You know, let me think through what would be different, what would change, right? And so you get a little vision cooking in your mind, you’re using your god given imagination, get everything cooking upstairs, and, and you’re thinking about it. And all of a sudden, you’re like, oh, that doesn’t sound right. Oh, I know. Okay, if we did that this might happen. And so the word I’m going to use is I picked it up from one of my Catholic friends was desolation. I was like, oh my gosh, that is such a good word. Right?
So when you’re, you begin to feel like that is not a good move for us. Right? And you on the inside of your body and your belly and your soul, whatever you’re like, oh, you know that you’re experiencing what they call desolation? Now, the the other other thought is, is like, you get it cooking in your brain, and you’re like, oh, well, if we did that this would happen. And that would happen. And this will happen and that would happen that, you know, oh, this is feeling great. You know, then you’re experiencing consolation.
Like, that’s the right thing. That’s the right thing. So I think that’s, we’re back to the reflection place, right. And when I got taught that, I was like, that does happen to me, that totally happens to me that desolation consolation thing. But it’s like, do you get yourself in an a discerning state, you know, so that you can stop and feel where you’re at, right? So I think leaders really need to do the E. Don’t forget, that’s the E in his T.E.A.M.S. coaching methodology is engaging. How are you leading yourself? Yeah. What do you think about my desolation consolation?
Michael: Hi, my name is Michael King. Welcome to my podcast. Today, I have the guest of Nicole Greer. Today she’s gonna be sharing about discernment, desolation, and consolation. Welcome to the show everybody. I’m just messing with you. Just, I love it. I love it. I think it’s brilliant. And if you haven’t developed that content, I would highly suggest that you nail that down. That’s that’s money all the way. So well done.
Nicole: Money. All right. Well, well, here’s the thing. Everybody is sitting here. I got a little note here. I got a little note here about the Enneagram. So let’s let’s chat about that for just a skinny second, because both Michael and I are certified in probably various and sundry assessments that you can take that help you look in the mirror right like what’s what’s it like to experience me. And the Enneagram is super cool, y’all. And I, what, which Enneagram assessment are you using? What are you using Michael?
Michael: Cloverleaf
Nicole: Cloverleaf. Oh, which is fantastic. Okay, so reputable, just sayin people. So with the Enneagram, there are nine types or styles or what do you call them? Types, styles?
Michael: Yeah, nine types.
Nicole: Types. Okay. Yeah. So there’s nine of them. So it’s, it’s pretty intense. But let’s just kind of talk about those nine for a minute. Because I think people are probably like, I wonder what I am. So the one is all about, as I understand, you know, this idea of like, perfection is good, and high and holy and wonderful. Right? So, Michael is trying, Michael is trying to get it right in this life. But you gotta love a guy that wants to get it right. All right, so that’s the one. What what else would you say about the one?
Michael: You know, the one is, well, I wouldn’t say it’s like, necessarily, it’s the the get ‘er done. I mean, there’s, there’s a couple of different ways of looking at a one, depending on which one you’re using as your source material. So like, for me, I teach the one of being, you’re either the perfectionist, or you’re the reformer. So when you walk in a room, do you immediately notice that everything that you want to change in the room. And you’re immediately willing to kind of just pull the trigger and and make that happen.
So, but you also move a little bit slower, because you are a perfectionist, because you want to make sure that you nail it, nail it right. The thing that is probably the most important that we want to make sure that we don’t really skip over is that if you’re an eight, nine or a one, you kind of get grouped into this, this pattern of being a gut leader, though. So most of your decisions that you make, it’s going to be based on the way that you feel about certain things. So like, for example, if, if I’m working with leaders on a specific team, what you’re going to find is that if you have an eight, nine or a one, in a team dynamic, typically what I find is that eight, nines or ones that come to a preconceived idea of the person that they’re working with pretty dang quick.
You know, so they’ll say things to me, like, man, I wish I didn’t always feel this way about a certain person. And I wish I wasn’t always right about it. That’s, that’s not necessarily like a narcissistic statement. That’s literally the way that gut leaders think. And if you’re really honest with yourself, you’ve probably have sat in that boat before going, man, I wish I wasn’t always right, when it came to, you know, setting myself up to be hurt by a certain person. Well, that’s gut leaders., they sense those things. And and they move very, very quickly, by the way, as well.
Nicole: Yeah. And so would you call it intuition? That, that gut thing? Would you call it intuition?
Michael: I would call it discernment.
Nicole: Oh, very good. All right. Okay, Michael, he’s amazing in my life.
Michael: You see how I just literally just made that whole?
Nicole: We’re on the same page. Okay. All right. So the two, the two, I call the helper. What do you call the two? We call to the helper.
Michael: The giver.
Nicole: The giver, okay? Same thing. All right. So that person is an amazing human on planet Earth. So tell us a little bit about a two.
Michael: The two is, the two is, my wife is a two, by the way. So and but that’s the thing that kind of like.
Nicole Greer: Match made in heaven. One and a two.
Michael: You guys are like flip flop. She’s a two wing three, you’re a three wing two. But so incredibly generous. With the time love actually seeing like, high levels of empathy, again, two threes and fours. They, they all they make their decisions based on their heart. So incredibly generous, very missional, oriented type of type of personality type, you know, when it comes to their type. Here’s one thing I’ll say about working directly with a solid two. So if you’re if you’re somebody who has a solid two straight up and down, here’s what I will tell you. I know that you’re making progress when I’m cleaning up your messes. Don’t allow the what if factor to be your primary decision making factor in your life.
There’s too many of those things. So so that’s what these are the conversations that that Beth and I have consistently she does that she’ll. Because all these high levels of empathy, she walks in the room, she’s able to sense out like how other people are feeling in the room, she’s taking consideration everybody else at heart, massive off the charts, but she’s also super sensitive herself as well. And, and so like I love working with twos, because man, you can get high levels of emotional intelligence. And then if you can help them be higher risk takers as well because you know that they’re not going to be selfish. And you’re you give them permission to be a little bit messy. Watch out, man. Talk about a superpower.
Nicole: Absolutely, yep, and the three. So the way I see the three is the achiever. What do you think about the three? What’s your skinny.
Michael: Yeah, the three is the achiever as well. And I mean, that’s kind of the way that you’re, you know, and so if you specifically now, the what’s fun about the difference between the three and the eight, we’ll probably end up getting to the eight in a little bit. But the three is, is where it’s like the your achiever, but you’re also incredibly likeable, like, off the charts. Charisma, these people know that you care, your high levels of trust stability. So, but yeah, your own personal metric of success is actually seeing things get done. So. So threes are super fun to have on a team.
Nicole: Yeah, they yeah. And I. And that’s what he says exactly how I live. That’s exactly right. All right. So we got the three. Then we have the four who’s the individualist, or sometimes like the creative or something?
Michael: So this is this one’s fun, because you know, only 7% of the global population is an individualist? Is the number four.
Nicole: Wow, I did not know this. Yeah, so rare.
Michael: Yeah, only 7%. It’s a so it’s a super. So it’s the most rare out of all of them, which is why it’s called the individualist. But they also are very, like, you know, for the most part, individualist, they, they have a little bit more tendency to be somewhat introverted. They don’t necessarily, this is, I think, when I’m working on the Christian music industry side of things, what I do, or even the recording industry side of things, when I do, this is where all the artists hang out with. Even though for me, like, I’m a singer, songwriter, as well.
And, you know, and I’ve lived in that, in that camp as being you know, even in the church world of being a worship leader and working with teams. See my, my superpower when it came to working with with with music departments and working with worship teams, was that I was able to build. My team got to be close to 300 people big over multiple sites. And so I knew how to build the infrastructure and then put the right people in play to empower them, right. But as a songwriter, you put me into a room with a bunch of number fours. Somebody might actually die, right?
Nicole: That’s one of the 10 commandments. You can’t do that. Come on now.
Michael: Well, yeah, I mean, so. And that’s, I’m just, I’m totally being jokey. And like I’ve been, this is where I get. No way. No, not at all. But I’ll, you know, I’ll go to a whiteboard. And I’ll actually systematically start going, okay, great. Here’s our mathematical formula of how we’re going to write a song today. And the number fours are sitting in the room going, come on, man. Let’s just let’s just feel it out. Let’s just go with the moment.
Nicole: Let’s start a little something. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And so the fours, the poet’s among us. Yep, absolutely. Okay, so then we have the five which is the investigator. And so, as you’re going along here, I’m not sure if you’re writing down these things, but you can definitely get up with Michael. Go and visit him at his website. Tell us your website again, Michael.
Michael: Teams.coach.
Nicole: Yeah, teams.coach, and he can help you get this Enneagram thing figured out. Do it with your team. All right. So the five is the investigator. Tell us a little bit about that style.
Michael: Well, the investigator is the entryway. Well, it is what it is. You just nailed exactly what it is. There’s not really much more to this now. The five, sixes and sevens, these are, this is the entryway to what we call your thought leader or your mind leader. So these people, this this tribe of folks within your teams, they actually make all the decisions based on logic. So it wouldn’t make sense. But, but it’s really interesting your fives and your sixes, let’s clump those together because they’re super close. Because like number five is your investigator. Number six is your skeptic. And so if if by the way, if I get your terminologies background, feel free to let me know.
Nicole: I call the six the loyalist but.
Michael: Yeah, I mean, yeah, so there’s different ways of looking at it. Now five, sixes or sevens because they make the primary the decisions based on logic. If one plus one does not equal two, with this group of people, you’re going to have a cog in your machine. Things are going to slow down and come to a complete stop. The slowest group of people to trust but once they have your, once you have their trust, they’re the most loyal out of all of all the Enneagram types.
So but yes, the investigator they want it, they’re going to really find out okay, how does this work? My curiosity level of super high, it’s not necessarily that they don’t lack, don’t trust, but if they don’t understand the why, or the how the decisions that you’re making, things are gonna go a little bit wonky. So wonky is an official term that we use here at teams.coach.
Nicole: I like wonky. I have a favorite term to I say messy. Everything gets to be messy. If it needs to be. You got to unpack stuff. You know, we start working with teams over here. I’m sure it’s just like it is over there. Because you’re in Nebraska, correct? Am I right?
Michael: Yes, absolutely. Land of the Free Home of the Brave. Heartland, center that center, the country. Heartland of the Midwest.
Nicole: Yeah, so it’s the same over here on the east coast here in Charlotte, North Carolina. You know, I say, you know, we’re gonna start working with you. And we don’t have a prescribed, I also saw that on your on Michael’s stuff. So I’m gonna really like this guy, I don’t have a prescribed methodology for everybody in terms of, we’re gonna do this first and that second, this third and that fourth. I’m like that’s not how it works. And so it’s like, it’s like you have to, you know, you have this old shows on HGTV.
They’re like, we’re coming to redo your living room, and they take all of your stuff and they throw it out on the front lawn, and then they decide what to bring back in what color we’re gonna. I mean, that’s really what it’s like. So it’s messy, right is totally messy, or wonky. Yep. Okay, so the six is the loyalist. Okay, now the seven for a long time, I thought I was a seven, because I just liked the name the enthusiast, but I actually did get this stuff done. So not just excited about things. So the enthusiast, love an enthusiast. Talk about that.
Michael: Everybody does. Well, I mean, everybody needs a passion button on their team. And I think when it comes to, when I’m when I’m when you’re looking at the, which by the way, when you take the Enneagram, you’re gonna see this thing pop up like a pie chart. And just because you might be identified as like a 1, 2, 3, or four, et cetera. It doesn’t mean that your secondary strength is directly to the left or to the right of that. So what I find a lot of times is that sometimes my best ones, are also the ones that have a high level seven as well. So they’re able to, they they know the things that they’re excited about, and they’re passionate, and they’re able to champion things with with the the initiative with the vision and the values of your team.
Probably better than anybody else in your organization. But what’s also cool about them being the enthusiast is that they’re within that five, six or seven tribe. So they’re also really, really they want to make sure they get it right. So it again, they’re they make thought, they make their decisions based on logic, combined with high levels of emotional engagement within the mission of the organization. Sevens can be an absolute killer when it comes to the superpower of moving moving forward initiative. So these are these folks are great when it comes to like vision casting, and in motivating teams. Really, really good at it.
Nicole: Yeah, talk about momentum. There you go. All right, so we got two left. The next one is the challenger the eight. So the eight. Okay, so you got a really healthy eight on your team, you also get the momentum going. So talk a little bit about my friends who are eights, they like tell it like it is. Let’s get it going. We don’t have time to you know, fiddle around with stuff. We got to get rolling here. What about, what about the eights?
Michael: Well, you know what, let’s talk about the eights. Let’s but let’s talk about the person who’s actually leading eights on the team. Okay, I just want to apologize for you in advance. And I’m sure that there’s some scholarships out there for your therapy bills for you having a bunch of eights on a team. I’m sorry.
Nicole: No. Eights build the organization, man. They’re like, nope, we’re gonna roll. Gotta get it going.
Michael: I’m saying that. I’m saying that in jest, because but here’s the thing is that if you if you have, I’m not badding eights at all. So here’s the thing is that I look for eights to have on my team, specifically these, these are the folks that are really fantastic to have, you know. So I, when it comes to the inner circle, of a senior leader within an organization, you get to choose who are the most influential voices within your organization. And the last thing that you want is, number one is you don’t want to have a bunch of people that are going to slow you down. But you also don’t want to have a bunch of people that are just going to be yes men or yes women on your team.
Challengers are absolutely essential in order for you to actually push the organization along and making sure that you don’t get distracted. So I’ll just leave that with that is that is unfortunately, I wish the word challenger wasn’t, there’s got to be a better word that that you can that we can put to that. But they are it is an essential art form of being an eight is that they are they are gut leaders. They’re no BS players, when it comes to being on your team, they’re going to tell you exactly the way it is. And if they’re a healthy eight, they are going to propel you into spaces because they’ll have your back they’ll fight for you.
And they’ll actually protect you, which is one of the biggest assets of having having an eight on your team. Now an unhealthy eight can be a little bit dangerous. So you know, so just but there’s pros and cons to all these, it’s like the unhealthy and the healthy. They all balance each others out so but the eight is the one that where I’ve seen the biggest, I find out like really, really quick if the senior leader is an insecure leader, or if they’re a narcissist, by the number of eights that they either have or don’t have on their inner circle of their team. And I also find out the health of that eight by how much they’re empowered to actually do within an organization.
Nicole: Yeah, and in here’s like, a real simple way to think about an eight is like if you have a theory, they’re gonna poke a hole in it. Okay.
Michael: Poke a hole in it.
Nicole: Poke a hole in my theory. And so here’s the thing, though, when they poke the hole on the theory, it appears that they’re trying to weaken it. But at the end of the day, they are helping you make it stronger. And that’s the thing you got to remember about the eight. And that’s why he’s saying a lot of leaders may not have an eight on their team, because I don’t need anybody poke a hole in my theory, I know what I’m doing. And but you need a really smart eight on your team who can say no, I don’t know. What about this. And it makes you think, and that’s really what leaders need to be doing is thinking back to the right engagement.
Michael: Yeah, so when it comes to like, just the visionary responsibilities of the senior leader, you know, I know that I’m winning as an executive coach, when the when a significant amount of the bandwidth of the senior leader is being opened up to where, all they’re thinking about his vision, but when it comes to actually developing the systems and the strategies to execute to the vision, that they’re empowering it to their team, and a lot of those folks are eights, and you need them. So more power to you, mighty eights.
Nicole: Absolutely. Okay. And then finally, we have the nine, which is the peacemaker. All right, what do you call the nine?
Michael: Peacemaker, as well. Um, I have several. I have several leaders. It’s kind of interesting, actually of probably, of the church leaders that are on coaching commitments with us we have, we have quite a few that are actually nines. Kind of like nine wing ones that are in that group. So it’s, it’s a very interesting thing. But yeah, so I think with nines, you know, the strength of a nine is that they’re able to make their gut is usually spot on. When it comes to that, and they’re able to like they call it peacemaker, for specifically for a reason is that they want to make sure that there’s the overall avoiding conflict and making sure that the emotional centricity of the team remains intact without, without the organization spinning out into chaos, and conflict, which is really, really great.
The downside of of being a nine is, is you’ve probably anticipated this in some leadership situations that you’ve been in. Is that a solid nine, somebody who’s like, all the way pinned over to the left, that they are highly identified nine, is that sometimes they avoid conflict. And that has its implications to it. You know?
Nicole: Right, right. Yeah. So we went through these nine types in the in the way that I was kind of taught about it is that like, they all have this high, I’m gonna use the word holy, again. Like holy level that they can operate at, you know, when they’re healthy, they’re grounded. They’re intellectually, emotionally, spiritually, physically, financially, socially, plugged in correctly, their energy is really good. They operate at this really amazing level of enthusiast, challenger or achiever, whatever. But then, oh, you can you can go south, and you can, you know, and I’m gonna use this word evil. You’re not, you’re not anywhere close to the highest and best of this, right.
So it’s really a pretty cool assessment. Again, Michael is certified in this through cloverleaf, so call him up, do this with your team. Now, just, you know, we went through the the numbers and the names and stuff. So in the end, what happens when a team, you know, goes through this process of figuring out their Enneagram? What, tell me tell me a story. I bet you got a story in your pocket, you can pull out real quick and tell me about how this helped. Yeah, pull it out, put out. Tell me about a team that did this and had a breakthrough or something?
Michael: Yeah, you know, this is actually part of our everyday process is that we’ve developed a process, but it’s actually it’s a free product, you can have it from us as well. But it’s called the organizational amplifier. So it’s a 15 part survey that that encompasses the Enneagram into it. And it really just makes sure that you’re able to quickly identify. So if you are a senior leader, what we found is this. Is that the number one thing that either is going to slow you down, or burn you out, or is going to propel you towards success is making sure that you’ve clearly identified the type of leaders that you have in your direct proximity.
So for example, one of the teams that we’re working with right now is that we like to break people down into two different types of leadership camps. And so you’ve probably, if you’re following me on social, if you’ve watched some of our content online, you might have heard me talk a little bit about this idea of blueprints and frameworks. Blueprint leaders are the type of leaders that in order for them to actually move one step they actually need to know, okay, I need to play by play, I need the step by step I need the full check. If you’re going to have me get on a phone call and place an order to you know, Costco, I need to know exactly what to say as soon as I dial the number, otherwise, I’m going to freeze up. You know, that’s like that’s an over exaggeration of a blueprint leader.
Framework leaders are basically the types of leaders that you can go hey, this is the vision, this is the values, this is the direction we’re going. So go ahead and move. Well, one of our, one of our organizations that we’re working with, they were, they have, they have a very, very highly capable CEO, brilliant leader. But he just felt he was just getting burnout. And he felt the level of chaos and conflict that was existing within his executive team, it wasn’t because he didn’t have capable players, it was because there was a fear of moving forward, because he didn’t have the right leaders in the right spots at the C suite level.
So what you’re gonna find is, as soon as we, as soon as he took this, took our organizational amplifier, he’s able to make some adjustments and making sure that he had the framework players closer to him. And then the blueprint players, maybe two, maybe three steps distant from him. Because inside of that organization, what you’re gonna find is that if you’re, if you’re a senior leader, if they’re the one who has to come up with every single system and strategy, then they themselves become a blueprint leader, and that takes away from their visionary capacity.
So by us, just making just a few tweaks, which they actually made the tweaks, we just gave them in the information for them to make a solid decision, they’re able to open up the bandwidth of the organization and move faster towards vision, like they’ve never actually moved before. And that’s really the point of the Enneagram. The Enneagram is so you can understand and have reasonable expectations for performance. So if you and I are in a working relationship together, Nicole, I want to know, okay, what is my reasonable expectation I can have for you.
So I don’t put unfair expectations on the type of results in the products you’re going to produce in your role. This is where leaders failed more times than not, is not because, you know, we start looking at other leaders through the capability of what I’m able to produce, how I’m going to handle conflict. You know, what is my thing that fuels my life? Well, if I put everybody into that type of box, then that’s not fair to you. And that’s not fair to me to have that type of expectation internally. So knowing that type of dynamic within your team man talk about a set of superpowers that you can actually then start to build by design. That is absolutely, absolutely huge.
Nicole: Right. So what I heard you say is that if you do the Enneagram with their people, you’re gonna figure out their superpower. And then you can figure out where you need that superpower. And then you’re gonna plug and play and have better results than if you think everybody should be doing it your way. Did I get that right?
Michael: That’s 100% spot on.
Nicole: Awesome. I love it. All right. So here’s the thing. Here’s the thing. All right. Well, he’s playing the drums. I got it. Okay. So here’s what I want everybody to do. If you need any more information, you can reach out to Michael at Michael@teams.coach, or you can go to his website, which is www.teams.coach, check them out there. I just linked in with him earlier this evening. He’s on LinkedIn. And it’s michaelkingjr75. All right. So he’s got a baseball cap, always with the baseball cap. There’s a baseball cap.
Michael: Sometimes, sometimes not, you know.
Nicole: Yeah, I don’t know. He’s a ball cap kind of guy he’d fit in but just fine over here in North Carolina. All the boys wearing the ball caps. That’s how it is. All right. So check him out, check out his T.E.A.M.S. methodology. So I’m going to ask you one final question. I know there’s a special listener out there going. Drop me one more nugget. One more nugget Michael King. What would you give to that special listener? It’s like, give me one more goodie to write down.
Michael: You know, I think one of the biggest things that we end up getting stuck over is just our ability to be able to lead ourselves. I can’t express enough that the probably my biggest failure that I’ve made as a leader over the years is just allowing this to be stagnant. Is that you actually you’re in control of the influences in your life. And you’ve heard the saying that said this, it says this is that you are the sum average of the five loudest voices in your life. You know, the way that we the things that we hear determines what we think about. The things that we think about determine the things that we feel. The way that we feel determines what we the decisions we made, and, and the outcomes of our life.
So the biggest mistake that I’ve made was that I thought up until probably a few years ago that I just kind of had to accept the hand that was dealt to me when it came to the five loudest voices in my life. And this one significant tweak in my own self leadership strategy, which you need a self leadership strategy by the way. And this is why I love to do what I do is that if I want to be a better dad guess what I’m going to do? Is I’m going to put a better dad in my in my one of my five seats. If I want to be better with finances or have a different mindset when it comes to finances. I’m going to put someone who’s rockstar when it comes to finances.
If I want to be somebody who wants to be a healthier leader or a bigger influencer, I’m going to have somebody who’s been in space He says that I haven’t been before, which is what I, the newest coach that I just brought on for me personally, he’s been at the highest levels of executive coaching. And so it’s, it’s about controlling the influences that are in my life. And I’m so thankful that I that I was coached specifically to adapt some of those things, because I’ve experienced change. And I do believe that everybody deserves the opportunity to experience hope. And so understanding that today is the beginning of your next level and just step into that and own it.
Nicole: I love it. So word to the wise check about check out the five people closest to you who are speaking into your life. Pick somebody new, maybe pick Michael King, there’s an idea. All right, everybody, it’s been great to be with you. Thanks for being on. Michael, thank you for being on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast where we’ve talked about the T.E.A.M.S. Methodology, everybody. We’ve talked about the Enneagram and then he just dropped a really nice last nugget in your lap. So check them out at www.teams.coach. Thanks, Michael for your time and energy. You’re awesome. I appreciate it.
Michael: Thank you, Nicole.
Voiceover: Ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her strategies, systems and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email Nicole@nicolegreer.com. And be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at nicolegreer.com.
