If you’re trying to lead every member of your team as if they were the same person…
You’re probably hitting a wall.
Your team is made up of unique individuals with unique motivations.
But how do you discover these motivations and build one-on-one relationships with your team?
Dave Liu is a 30-year veteran of Silicon Valley and Wall Street—and an entrepreneur, advisor, and author.
He’s here to share his leadership expertise on:
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Navigating the fine line between personal and professional
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Using human psychology to lead
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Why the best leaders look inward
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And more
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Dave Liu: I think that the way that you lead people, is you really first need to get to know them, and understand what are their motivations, and you need to keep a close eye on this, because I think that as human beings, our motivations change over time.
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast with professional speaker, coach and consultant Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome everybody to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer, and they call me the vibrant coach and I am here with none other than David Liu, but I get to call him Dave. Dave is a 30 year veteran of Wall Street and Silicon Valley and still alive and breathing. And he’s an entrepreneur, has started multiple companies. He’s an advisor who has raised over 15 billion for hundreds of companies and an investor in multiple billion dollar exits. And he is passionate about advancing new ideas in technology and entertainment and supporting philanthropic causes for underrepresented groups. He’s a creator who enjoys writing books and drawing cartoons. And he invites you to reach out, you can reach him on his website and everybody it is liucrative.co. And let me spell it for you. L I U C R A T I V E .co. Hey, Dave, how are you?
Dave: I’m pretty good. Thanks for having me on.
Nicole: Yeah, I’m excited to introduce you to all my listeners. And I want you to know that I was looking at your book just a minute ago so of course, all my people are like what book? Okay, let me tell you about the book, everybody. Here’s the book. The book is awesome. The Way of the Wall Street Warrior. And I pulled up his book on Amazon. I want to read this to y’all. It says this book is dedicated to my mother, Vicki Liu, who showed me through hard work and determination that anything is possible. First of all, I love this woman. She also taught me not to take crap from anyone, from jerk customers at Safeway to narcissistic CEOs. Thanks, Mom. So you know how I always talk about people weren’t raised? Right. I think Dave was raised right, where you raised right?
Dave: I think so. I think things turned out all right.
Nicole: Okay, so I absolutely love it. And so that’s his book. So I am delighted that you’re here with us. And you know, my first question out of the gate every time is what is your definition of leadership? I am collecting definitions, Dave. I want to see what you got.
Dave: So I went to lots of schools and had lots of training on leadership. And I fundamentally don’t think there’s a standard definition. But for my, my purposes, and the way I think about it, I think it’s really fundamentally, how do you get people to do what you want them to do? And I think leadership is demonstrating how you’re a leader and getting the right people and resources to achieve some common goal.
Nicole: All right, that’s a fantastic definition. Yeah, absolutely. So we got to get people on the same page moving the same direction, get something done. All right. So it sounds like you get a lot of stuff done. Right. So all these billion dollars, I said billion, like three times in your intro. So tell me, how how does a leader get in there and make things happen? You know, you say you gotta get people to follow you. So how exactly do you do that? What are the skill sets that leaders need to move things along?
Dave: Yeah. So you know, one of the funny things after having been in the corporate world now for more than 30 years at this point, and working in multiple industries, Wall Street, Silicon Valley, and also a little bit in the entertainment space, is, I think that we’re not really taught how to be leaders. I think we’re taught a lot of tools. We’re taught a lot of frameworks. But we try to make those frameworks very generic. And I think the problem is, or the challenge is that when you go to schools, and when you go to courses, and you read books about leadership, in many ways, they devolve to the lowest common denominator, because they’re meant to serve as broad an audience as possible. Because if you can serve as broad an audience as possible, then you can sell more books, you can sell more courses, etc.
And what I’ve learned in my career is that that doesn’t work. I kind of look at my siblings as an example. So I have two brothers. And if you look at the three of us on paper, we’re all male. We’re all Asian American. We all have the same parents. And what the standard books and tools will tell you is that the way you manage the three of us, if you need to lead the three of us, you should use the same tools. Because we’re very similar, right? In many ways we look identical. And I can tell you, and I’m sure it’s very similar for you. I can tell you that that would be a disaster. The way that I am motivated to accomplish what you want me to do is not the same way my brothers are motivated.
And so when I think about what are the fundamental skills and tools that are necessary in order for you to get people to follow your lead, if you will, to get people to do what you want them to do, it has to fundamentally be very bespoke. It has to be highly customized. And I recall that when, you know, I was at Harvard Business School, there was courses in management. And one of the ones that they kept emphasizing was the inherent limiter on the number of people that you should have reporting to you. And they went through all these reasons. And, and a large part of it was driven by, you know, the requirement by the people that are reporting to you to feel like they have a voice.
And for you to get leverage off of them. You couldn’t have like 20, 30 direct reports, you really could only manage realistically, half a dozen to a dozen at most. And what I’ll tell you from practice, is that I think that number is actually correct. I think that the number ranges up to from six to 12 direct reports. But I’m not sure that the reasons that I was taught are the right reasons that it’s not a really about leverage, per se. I think it’s really about getting to the heart of what motivates that individual. What are the key things that really matter to Dave Liu, the employee? And how do I, Dave Liu, the manager, how do I get the most out of him?
By understanding what really, really motivates him, and I believe through practice now, and through many, many years of managing hundreds of people, that’s really hard if you have a big group of people. It’s really hard to determine what are the motivators for that individual. And I’ll give you a perfect example myself. So the Dave Liu in his 20s, was dirt poor, had a lot of debt out of school. And the motivations for me, when I was really young, were actually quite simple. I wanted to make a lot a lot of money as quickly as I could. And I wanted to rise in corporate ladder as fast as I could.
And any manager of me if they wanted to get the best out of me, if they wanted to lead me, all they need to do is figure out okay, what incentives related to compensation and rising up the hierarchy. What incentives can I put in front of Dave, to have him operate at 100%. And that was a very simple way to motivate me. However, over time, when Dave got into his 30s, and 40s. And it sometimes sounds a little weird talking to the third person, but I think it’s easier to give an example here, but But Dave is 40s was not motivated by those things at all. Dave, in his 40s was motivated more about like, you know, reputation. And also, when I became a father, it was really more about like quality of life and being a good dad.
And unfortunately, because time is a zero sum game, something has to give and work had to give. And ultimately, that’s why I retired from the business in my 40s, in my early 40s, because I wanted to pursue other things. I wanted to be an entrepreneur, I wanted to be a great dad. And if you use the same incentives that you used on Dave in his 20s, with Dave in his 40s, that would not have worked. And in fact, when I gave my resignation, many of my direct bosses were actually really surprised that I was walking away. They thought I was crazy. And in fact, they gave me a sabbatical, they said, hey, look, what why don’t you just do a walk about and get us out of your system?
Because you’re clearly nuts, and then come back, and I’m sure you’ll be fine. And you’ll be motivated by the same stuff. And the reality was, obviously, I wasn’t, and I walked away. And I reflect back on that experience. And I realized that my managers, my leaders, had not spent time with me in my 40s, because they assumed that I was still the same person. And so fundamentally, going back to your original question, I think that the way that you lead people is you really first need to get to know them, and understand what are their motivations, and you need to keep a close eye on this. Because I think that as human beings, our motivations change over time.
You know, as we get older, as we potentially have families, as we potentially get out of poverty, and into maybe a more comfortable position, certain things aren’t as important to us as they used to be. And if you’re a manager of that person, and you’re trying to get the best out of them, and you’re trying to lead them, you don’t ever want to be blindsided. And I think that way you get blindsided is you stop paying attention, or you start to manage 30 people and you don’t have time to really keep on top of everybody. So that’s why fundamentally, I think that there’s a limiter on the number of people that can report to you.
Nicole: Yeah, and so I love what you’re saying and let’s just bottom line it. You’ve got to know who’s working for you. And, and I love what you said, I’d never heard that before. You got to have a limiter, and it’s six to 12, maybe even 12 is too many I’m thinking.
Dave: Twelve is a lot. But I think most of the time when you read all the books on management, that tends to be the range that they emphasize. But they never tell you the reason that I just gave. They, there’s always some other reason. It’s mostly about leverage. And it’s not necessarily about understanding and keeping a close eye on what motivates people so that you aren’t caught blindsided. And you have the wrong incentive systems in place for your employees.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think that what this boils down to is what Nicole Greer would call having regularly scheduled one on ones with people to do employee performance management. Because part of that performance management is knowing what motivates people and what they want to get after and what their goals are. You know, one of the things that kind of grieves me, Dave is I’ll ask people, well, what are your goals? And they’re like, do you mean personal or professional? And I’m like, I think it’s just one life that you’re gonna lead. And they kind of probably all go like this, right? And so, you know, I want to know them all. And I think that a leader that sits down and does this get to know you thing is very, very rare. So in your experience of, you know, getting to know your employees in doing all the kind of fantastical things that were in your bios, and what would a one on one with David Liu look like?
Dave: You know, a one on one with me would definitely not be in the office. So I’m a big believer in getting into more social environments where I can get to know you the person a little bit better. And, and also, I think it is helpful, if you are the employee, to let your boss get to know you in a little bit more personal setting, more social setting. And that’s not to say that one on ones in the office aren’t productive. But what I have found is that when you’re doing one on ones in a certain environment, the environment actually does have an impact on the type of information that you’re sharing.
And this has actually been proven through through research that the setting and the environment actually affects the way you communicate certain types of information. And what I found is that the the traditional office setting is not necessarily one that’s conducive to, frankly, the truth. So I’ll give you a perfect example, right? I’m sure we’ve all been in this situation, I’ve been in this situation, and I’m sure a lot of your listeners have been in this situation, where you are talking to your boss about compensation. And you are potentially thinking about, how do I position this correctly so my boss doesn’t think that it’s okay to pay me less.
And so whenever you’re in an office setting, most of the time, if you’re talking to your boss, you’re emphasizing how much you need to get paid, and how a lot of other people are getting paid more than you. And you want to make sure that you get paid well, or you’re out of there. And look, I’m sure for the vast majority of us, that’s the case. But I’ll tell you, there’s there’s a lot of people who don’t really care that much about getting top dollar, because otherwise, none of these companies would exist, because let’s face it, the most number of people get paid the average compensation.
So because every conversation is a bell curve. And so if all of us felt that way, then the company wouldn’t exist. But in an office setting, you’re not going to say to your boss, yeah, I’m totally cool with what you paid me, right, or like, you know, you actually kind of overpaid me, right. But you are more likely to be more open in a social environment where you’re potentially a little more disarmed. And as a boss, you want to have some kind of empathy with your employees. Because I think when employees have empathy with their bosses, then there is less of a pure transaction. It’s less of a purely transactional relationship.
It’s one where, hey, you know what, like, I don’t mind working here, frankly, for probably a little low, lower than market because I’m learning a lot from you. Right? And you’re actually a pretty cool person. And I enjoy spending time with you. And I don’t think that that kind of conversation really happens easily in the in the office setting environment with you know, either glass, glass doors, glass, windows, etc. But maybe Starbucks, maybe over lunch, you can really get to the heart of what motivates people and what drives them.
And so a one on one with me, most likely would start off actually more of a social environment. And then once we get to know each other really well and you know, I kind of know your your mentality and you kind of know mine, then I think it’s very easy to say hey, why don’t why don’t we just grab a quick sec in my office so we can chat. Right? And I can give you quick feedback on maybe that particular project you just worked on. So that’s generally how I approach it.
Nicole: Yeah. And you know, you were talking about how it’s on a bell curve, right, the salaries and everything and all the statistics, all the surveys I’ve ever seen, you know, money is not number one ever. It’s like number four, number seven you know. Somewhere vacillating between those numbers right there. And the number one thing that people want is opportunity. The number two thing they want is training. I mean, because I think people understand if I know more, I can do more, I’ll get paid more.
I mean, like, people understand how that works in this life. I think at some subconscious level, or at a very conscious level, you know, that that’s what they really want. And I think that doing that employee performance management is huge. And, and people are probably listening, David, and they’re like, well, isn’t there a fine line between professional and personal? I would say, yes, a very fine line. So how do you navigate the personal and the professional? Now I heard you say, go to Starbucks.
I did not hear you say go to the bar and have six, you know, whatever’s together, right? So, so tell people how they navigate the fine line between personal and professional because I think it’s huge. People need to understand the difference. I have some people who have gotten themselves in trouble. They’re knee deep in with people, they’ve been over to their house for dinner, their children go to stuff together. I’m like, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop. What are your thoughts on that?
Dave: Yeah, so maybe what I’m about to say is a little bit controversial. But hopefully, you can, you can, you can understand a little bit more my perspective. So I’ve worked in industries, primarily Wall Street and Silicon Valley, which are highly compensated, highly competitive industries. And as you as you go up the corporate ladder, the compensation and the power and the title grow exponentially. And when you compare, for instance, the the CEO level compensation to the entry level on Wall Street, or Silicon Valley, it’s not even exponential, it’s really parabolic, you know, like the orders of magnitude. And so the stakes are exponentially or parabolically, high.
And what I will tell you is that in those two industries, where I spent pretty much most of my career, I have not seen a huge separation between personal and work. In many ways, they are completely intertwined. On Wall Street, and less so in Silicon Valley, but it is still a similar culture. They tend to be much more of a 24/7 type of industry, where you’re, the expectation among the bosses, and I’m not saying this is a good thing. But the expectation is that because the compensation and the stakes are so high, if I need to get hold of you, I need to get a hold of you. And you need to be available. With certain, you know, boundaries, you need to be available if there’s a big emergency.
And I’ve seen that very, very typical within the industry. And as a result, I see much more of a gray area between what’s personal and what’s business. Now, that being said, these industries have a history of being, you know, misogynistic, not welcoming to people of color. And so I think you’re starting to see some backlash, particularly on Wall Street, and also Silicon Valley, where people are starting to push back on this. This 24/7 culture, this culture of like, hey, look, we’re going to mix all of this stuff together. And so what I always tell the people that work for me is look, you know, you got to just be very clear with, you know, your bosses, and with me, like, where are the boundaries here?
Because, you know, I’m now kind of an older guy. And I grew up in a culture where I worked 120 hours a week, and I worked seven days a week. And, you know, I had a pager, then a Blackberry, then now an iPhone, right? Where I was always available. And I know that that’s not the right way to run your life. And it’s going to take time for that to change. But I think a big part of the way that you kind of create that demarcation point, if you will, is I think one, you be very transparent and explicit about like, hey, what, what’s what’s fair game and what’s not, in terms of your work/life balance, your work/life style. And then and then there’s a lot of third rail topics now that I think are relatively obvious, but if not, you can certainly check with your HR department. The things related to gender or things related to race, right?
Those things should never be spoken about and should not come up in conversation or in any venue. And if they do, you know, make sure that you you’re transparent, and you make it clear to your bosses and to the people that matter, that these things are making you uncomfortable. But I start off with a big caveat, because I can’t I come from two industries where I haven’t seen that much of a separation. And I think a big part of it is because the stakes are so high and the competition for you know, every level of that rung is so intense because the rewards are so massive that I haven’t seen that much of a separation that I see in more traditional industries where maybe the stakes aren’t as high.
Nicole: Yeah, I often say this thing where like, you know, I spend more time with the people I work with than the man I married. You know, I spend more hours with those people, you know, and I think a lot of people, they, they start to call work a family and this kind of thing. And I love the intention and the feeling behind that. But the truth of the matter is, is that demarcation line that you just mentioned, you know, it does have to have that professional quality, because somebody will lose their mind in the process. But you know, not all the time, but somebody will, and then one day, you’re going to have to end up firing somebody you had dinner with two weeks ago. And, you know, that’s the scary part, you know, so you know, have some really great friends over here that you can drink wine with, and go on vacation with.
And then, you know, do what you need to do, even if it’s totally high stakes, and people have to be on call, and you have to be available 24/7 or whatever, because that’s the nature of the game. I think what it’s really about is, is setting really proper expectations. And I think anywhere, maybe you might want to push back on this, but anywhere like professionalism wins the respect of the day and wins the day, I think almost every time. I have this little quote Dave, my listeners have heard it 100 times, but you get to hear it again, you’re welcome, everybody. But this is so good, Dave. My master coach told me uncommunicated expectations are a premeditated opportunity to be disappointed.
And I think that is so stinking true. And that, you know, so it’s like, you know, as leaders, we, you know, if we want to build a vibrant culture, you know, we’ve got to set proper expectations. And really, we’ve, we’ve got to be that person that can be respected and professional. So you know, you’re in these high stakes games and things, one of the things I think is so important to building this vibrant culture is really high quality character in people. So I bet you, you’ve got some stories on both sides, really bad and really good. I bet you’ve seen a lot in between two. So tell me how you think character, the quality of somebody’s character, plays into their leadership, or how you build the culture that’s vibrant?
Dave: Yeah, I think it’s a foundational element of leadership. You know, I’m obviously I’m Chinese American, and I’m big fan of Sunsoo, The Art of War. And it’s a philosophy, you know, that’s been passed down for over 2000 years. And, you know, Sunsoo talks about what are the some of the key elements of leadership. And, you know, he talks about intelligence, and, you know, trust and love and courage and discipline. And you’ll notice that, you know, he includes in their trust, from a credibility standpoint. So, in order to be an effective leader, you you need to develop trust with your team, so that they view you as a credible leader, because if you’re not credible, then nobody’s going to follow you.
And I think a big part of that comes down to you, do you do what you say? Do you follow through on the promises that you make? And I think in general, I think that that is a very, very effective way to galvanize people and get people excited. And the only reason why I say, in general, is, unfortunately, I have seen a lot, and I’ve dealt with lots of people in my life. And there are definitely people that I have worked with, and I have been their advisor, or have dealt with them across the table, who are not trustworthy, who do not do what they say they do, who violate moral ethics, who in certain situations, break the law and get away with it. And yet they figure out a way to get to the top.
They figure out a way to amass massive wealth. And what I will say is that you’re going to encounter people like that your whole life, you’re going to encounter leaders like that your whole life, people that don’t do what they say, and lose credibility with you. And you sit back and you wonder, like, how the heck is this guy my boss? Like, life’s too short, like, I gotta get out of here, right? We’ve all been there. And what I will tell you is that, fundamentally, don’t get tempted by that. Because you can, particularly when you’re younger in your career, you learn by osmosis, and you observe what kinds of behaviors are rewarded or punished within certain organizations, because every organization has a unique culture.
And in these organizations, certain things are rewarded as the superpowers that gets you up the corporate ladder that gets you paid a lot of money, and certain things are admonished and punished, because they’re like, look, we don’t tolerate that in our organization. And what I will say is that when you’re growing in your career, and you see people do bad things, break, break the rules, lie. Don’t get tempted by that because that is a very slippery slope. And I think it’s really easy to get tempted and see, well, it appears that everyone who lies and cheats and isn’t trustworthy seems to get ahead of in this place.
Okay, well, then maybe it’s time for you to go find some other place to work. Maybe that’s not the organization you want to be in. Because fundamentally, the one person that has to live with you is you. And you got to learn how to live with yourself. And I think that if you start to break some of those ethical boundaries, or start to make those compromises, I’ve seen it become a slippery slope. And there’s, at some level, there’s no turning back once you start to do that.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So the quality of you character and I love it. You said it was Sunsoo. The Art of War? Did I get it right? Yeah. So I just want to repeat, I like to repeat because I think people are on their treadmill when they’re listening to this Dave, and then they need to write it down. Okay, so in there, he talked about the character traits of intelligence. And don’t miss this. It’s the Art of War, but he talks about love, courage, discipline, and trust. Okay, so I think that is a isn’t that like a best seller of all time? The Art of War?
Dave: Was I mean, it was philosophy has been around for over 2000 years. Yeah. It’s, it’s really become a kind of a staple in the business world, because there’s so many things that are similar between winning a corporate war, and winning in the corporate marketplace and actually winning on the battlefield.
Nicole: Right, right. Okay. Yep. So everybody, that’s a classic, you got to get it in your on your bookshelf. Okay, fantastic. All right. So, you know, again, you’ve been working with folks in Silicon Valley, and you are at Harvard, and you are in New York City, on Wall Street, and all that kind of good stuff. And so we’ve talked about character, but I’m just wondering, what are some other things that, you know, like, definitely do this, this will set you up for success, this will build a vibrant culture. So what are like, you know, Dave Liu’s definites? Do these things?
Dave: Yes. So I think I think one of the fundamental things that I wish I had learned when I was much younger, and I tell people that go to the best schools and learn the best frameworks in the world, I tell them to spend a lot of time studying human psychology, and understanding what makes people tick. Because going full circle with our conversation here, I think so much of management and being successful is getting people to do what you want. And because everyone is different, what you need to figure out are what are some of the common threads among us as human beings, such that I can figure out like, what are some of the things that I can use to create incentives to motivate you to do what I want you to do.
And when you look at some of the research that’s been done in the psychology area, particularly in the last couple of decades, what they’ve determined is that people are not rational. In fact, people tend to do things that on the face of it seem kind of silly. And there’s all these best selling books, you go to any major airport in America, and you’ll see them lined up books like Predictably Irrational, or Nudge, or any of these books that actually try to explain why people do silly things.
And the reason is, because humans are not perfect. And there are certain things that we are biased towards or biased against. And some of the challenges, particularly for women in the workforce are related purely to bias. They’re not rational, right, but they just happen to be part of the human psychology. Things like risk aversion, why do we, you know, why are we so nervous about downside, and we generally aren’t as accepting of upside potential. It’s because that’s fundamentally part of our nature, as human beings, it kept us out of the harm’s way. You know, on the on the Serengeti, you know, many years ago.
Nicole: It’s that amygdala that’s right here at the base of your neck that’s responsible for fight, flight, freeze and deflect.
Dave: I would say that there are two things, if I were to parse it into two, there are two things that I always encourage people to spend time on. The first thing is, try to understand the motivations of the people that work for you. And the people that are required to help you achieve whatever you want. So this is not just employees, this is partners, this is customers, this is suppliers, right? Try to get to know these people so that you understand what motivates them. Because, like I said earlier, it’s not just gonna be all uniform, there’s gonna be certain things that that that motivate or bug certain people more than others. But then the second thing, and I find that people are really bad at this.
The second thing is to really look inward in yourself, and recognize that you are not a rational being, even though you think you are, right. Because even though you’re the narrator of your own epic story, and you think like, oh, yeah, I’m completely logical, you’re not. And you have to accept that you’re just like everybody else. And so one of the things that I always tell people to spend their whole life identifying and trying to eliminate and it’s like a game of whack a mole that never ends, is figure out your own blind spots, figure out your own biases. And as you progress in your career, try to figure out which ones are fixable. And frankly, which ones are fatal.
Because some of us have biases and blind spots that we can never get rid of. Maybe it was the way we were raised something traumatized us, right, maybe, you know, early in our career, you know, there was one boss, or certain scenarios that taught us, hey, if I’m ever in this situation, again, I cannot be in this situation. So I think the second piece of advice I would give people as they’re building their careers, or their companies, or trying to advance is to look inward, and try to figure out, like, what are my own blind spots? What are my own biases, and try to rectify them. And I understand completely that this is really hard. That’s why they call it blind spots.
Otherwise, they’d be called obvious spots. There’s lots of ways to figure this out. You know, I actually talk a little bit about this in my book, but you know, I’m a big believer in post mortems. You know, when you have a failed project, or you did something wrong, like, try to be really reflective on that, and try to understand what were the things that you did wrong, and be really honest with yourself. Because if you’re being dishonest, you’re only being dishonest with yourself, and you’re not helping yourself. So I think I think really trying to spend a lifetime of identifying your biases, your blind spots, I think that can make you a better leader and can help advance you in your career.
Nicole: Yeah, I totally agree. And I have my own coaching methodology, Dave, and it’s called SHINE. And the first thing is self awareness. And that is absolutely what you’re talking about, is like, I call it turning the mirror inward, like what is up with Nicole today. And yesterday, and what is going to be up with her tomorrow, which is where the true choice stands. Right? You know, so if I’m reflective about what happened, it’s really important. So there’s a faith based practice called the examen, and that the examen comes from a guy named St. Ignatius from, you know, another guy 1000s of years ago or whatever. And he said, he said to his priests, you know, if you don’t pray today, it’s okay. If you know, if you don’t, if you don’t, you know, worship today it’s okay, but better do the self examine today.
And I just think that’s so good. Because when I turn that mirror inward, you know, I kind of have these two things happen in the language that’s, I’m not Catholic, but the Catholic language is, is when you think about how you did well, today, like, Oh, I did the right thing right there. And I did the right thing right there you examine when that was good. And I’m proud of that, in a good way proud. You have this sense that comes on you like it’s consolation, like, you know, it feels good. And then to your point, when you have something that you’re lying to yourself about, like, you know, because you get that feeling. And they call it desolation. Like, oh, you know, that, like that little panic inside.
But the the more you get close to the panic, the more you realize the difference between the desolation and the consolation. It becomes more clear, and you can just really act on the right thing. So I love what you’re saying about self awareness. And I’m going to totally steal. They’re not called blind spots but they’re called, they’re not called obvious spots. I love that. I thought that was genius. And you know, you were talking again, since the second time, everybody that David said, figure out your motivations. And I was thinking about that. And it came to me I had a list of motivations.
And just just to prove Dave’s point, he said, not everybody is all about economic. There’s the drive to be true to your convictions could be a big motivator, the drive to help others, altruistic. The drive to advance and have power and position, political. Drive to be unique. Be an individualist. The drive to understand and learn and solve problems and the drive to be creative. So listen to all those motivations. Yeah, so which one which one, okay, so you’ve you’ve probably made a boatload of money by now, because you did all those fancy things. And were parts of billion dollar things. So what are you motivated by these days days, Dave?
Dave: So I am motivated by several things. So when I left Wall Street, I wanted to see if I could be an entrepreneur. So I started a bunch of companies. And I got that out of my system. So I continue to start companies and try new things. Because I think it’s incredibly rewarding. It’s, it’s like the closest thing I think, for a man to give birth. You know, where you’re birthing these things that you can look at, okay, that’s my baby. It came out of here, and we became a reality. I also am a big believer in being a great father. I didn’t want to become like one of those cliché absentee dads.
So I just dedicated a lot of my time to my two boys, you know, from everything from like, you know, meals, getting meals ready, bring them to school, or being there to teach them life, and just spend a lot of time with them. And in fact, the the, even though my book is dedicated by mom, the reason why I wrote the book was actually for my two boys, because I wanted to make sure that, you know, when they when they start their careers, that they don’t run into a lot of the frustrations that many, many people have. There’s plenty of statistics now, that show for many years, more than half, maybe as many as two thirds of Americans don’t like their jobs. Don’t enjoy what they do every day. Right.
And that’s a really sad existence obviously. And so and I believe that a lot of it comes down to being under titled or under compensated in the workplace, the unhappiness. So I wanted to give my boys a couple of tactics to help them potentially get paid fairly, or get promoted, you know, at the appropriate pace. So I spent a lot of time being in dad. But then the third thing that I firmly believe in is giving back and, you know, hopefully making society a little bit better. Because I think we’re all products of the people that came before us, we wouldn’t be here if it weren’t for sacrifices and things that, you know, our families did for us. And even the piece of technology and advancement of society is driven by collective work together. So I try to pick these small islands where I can make a small difference.
Because I, I’m a big believer in acute focus, where I see people, you know, get disappointed or don’t necessarily achieve everything they want is when they get spread too thin. So my focus is really on giving back to the Asian American community, which is a community that obviously I’m very passionate about. And my book is one element of that, because even though the book is usable by anyone that feels that the system is rigged against them, and it’s looking for any advantage or any leg up, I think the fact that I’m an Asian American who broke through the proverbial bamboo ceiling on Wall Street, I think that helps a lot of other Asian Americans look at that and say, okay, you know, if this guy did it, then I certainly I can do it. So my book and, you know, talking about some of the tactics, I think is helpful.
The second thing is, I’m a big believer in the power of news to change the narrative. And I fundamentally believe that a lot of stories important to my community, to the Asian American community are not really reported in mainstream America. There’s unfortunately, situations where you see, like, really bad tragedies, you know, like an Asian American women getting murdered in their homes, or getting pushed into train tracks. And I’m referring to Christina Yuna Lee and Michelle Go, who were murdered last late last year, suddenly, that ends up on the mainstream news.
But the reality is that Asian hate crimes have continued and continue, you know, actually at a feverish pace, and that’s largely absent from the mainstream news. So I’m the vice chairman, and a donor behind a website called AsAmNews, asamnews.com. And we’re nonprofit. And we are a volunteer reporter network. So volunteer journalists, and we write articles that are important to our community. And so that’s another piece where I spend a lot of time. And then the third is, I fundamentally believe that if you don’t see the faces of people on screen or hear their voices, then they start to become invisible.
And I think one of the challenges with Asian Americans in America is that you wear your foreignness on your face, because in many respects, we were the, you know, the smallest, large ethnic group, so fourth largest if you add all Asian Americans together, and we were more recent, you know, immigrants to this country. You know, we get we get asked those cliché questions like, where are you really from? And how come your English is so good, right? Like things that fundamentally are actually really insulting. Right? So what I try to do is I try to help the representation in the media. And the way I do that is by using skills that I’m really good at, which is, you know, raising money and setting companies up and driving strategy.
So I’ve been involved as an investor and advisor in several production companies in the TV, the film and live Broadway production area where I’m helping Asian American founders create not only their companies but also create content, where the lead actor or person is Asian American or Asian descent. So that’s kind of like the third thing that I do. But you know, going back to some your list of what motivates people, I’m certainly beyond that point where I’m motivated by money or power or title or anything like that. I’m really motivated by trying to give back to the community. And I know that sounds a little corny. Just make the place a little bit better for my two boys.
Nicole: Right. No. So it sounds very altruistic to me. Right. So I love it. Absolutely. That’s beautiful. Yeah. So I’d feel like to have you come back on and let’s talk about diversity. And let’s talk about these things a little bit deeper. Want to do that?
Dave: Yeah, absolutely. Happy to talk about it any time.
Nicole: Okay. Well, we’re at the top of the hour. But I just want to ask you one little question. I know, you got one more nugget in there. If there was a special listener, right, and you learned to mentor them and give them one last little nugget, what would you give them?
Dave: I would say aside from you know, get my book, because I really.
Nicole: Tell them the title.
Dave: Yeah, the way of the Wall Street Warrior, Conquer the Corporate Game Using Tips, Tricks and Smart Cuts. I really wrote that book, as I said, for my two boys, but it is really a summary of all the mentorship tips that I’ve given to hundreds of people that have worked for me over my career. And I’m really proud of the fact that many of the people that worked for me have gone on had amazing careers. And when you when you look at some of the recommendations they’ve given on the book, or on my LinkedIn profile, you know, it’s a little embarrassing to say, but many of them have attributed their success to me, and maybe some of the initial pain and suffering that I gave them early on.
But I think I think the one thing actually that that I didn’t mention, which I always encourage people to look at is the ikigai framework. So the Japanese framework, ikigai. I K I G A I and I tell them to check on this framework periodically to make sure they’re on the right path. And the framework is quite simple. It’s helping you figure out your purpose in life, which obviously is work as well. And it’s the answer is four questions.
It is, what are you good at? What are you passionate about? What does society value? And what will society pay for? And what I tell people, particularly when they’re younger, they have a lot of energy and, and maybe even some when you’re middle aged, is like don’t ever settle. Try to find the answer to all four of those questions. And if you do find it, then hold on to that tight, because you found the purpose that many people take their whole life searching for and never find.
Nicole: That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. So that was just a little bit of genius dropped in there at the last second, everybody get those four questions answered. And until next time, when David Liu shows back up and we’ll talk a little bit about more about bias and more about being an Asian American, I would love to do that. Do a little DEI work. That’d be fantastic. Thank you so much for being on Build a Vibrant culture podcast. Tell them one more time where they can find you in the name of the book. And we’ll see you next time.
Dave: You can find me on my website liucrative.com. l i u c r a t i v e.com or .co And the book is The Way of the Wall Street Warrior, Conquer the Corporate Game Using Tips, Tricks and Smart Cuts. And you can find it on Amazon or any of your major booksellers.
Nicole: Alright, people go buy it, then we’ll do this again and we’ll go through it. All right. Great to be with you, David.
Dave: Thank you.
Voiceover: Ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her strategies, systems and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email Nicole@nicolegreer.com. And be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at nicolegreer.com.
