Rob Colvert began as a volunteer firefighter and rose through the civil service ranks to become a Fire Battalion Chief. He is also a mentor and college instructor of Incident Management and Fire Protection and Technology.
Rob has 25 years of experience in public safety and leadership. He shares stories from the firehouse and what he has learned as he has climbed the ranks to Battalion Chief, including:
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How to find a mentor that will invest in you and help you rise through the ranks
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How to cultivate and maintain leadership capital
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How lessons from the firehouse translate across leadership roles
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Where he has seen leaders struggle the most
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And much more
This unique angle on leadership is something any leader can learn from and implement into their own team culture. Plus, Rob shares his favorite leadership reads. Don’t miss out!
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Rob Colvert: If we’re going to build relationships and we’re going to lead others, we have to have a high degree of humility. We have to be able to control our ego.
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast with professional speaker, coach and consultant Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and I’m here today with a very, very special guest. I have Rob Colvert with me. He is a husband. He is a father. He has been married to his bride for 18 years. And he has two kiddos. One is Avery who’s 15. And I’m pretty sure he’s got a plan to somehow send her to boarding school very soon. And then he’s got a son named Vance, who is 10 years old. And Rob has been in fire service for 25 years. I think I’ve had the luxury of knowing him for about eight or nine of those years. He started out as a volunteer firefighter in his community. And he now works for the town of Morresville, where he is part of the Fire and Rescue Department. And he is responsible for operations for fire service for 24 hour periods at a time.
And he is in charge of the swift water rescue team, which is a state deployable resource for flooding and hurricanes. And in his spare time, which I don’t really know how you happen have time to be on this podcast with me today. But in his spare time, he teaches at Mitchell Community College, where he teaches fire protection and technology and incident management in part of the continuing education courses. And I’ve I I’ve invited him here today because I know he is an excellent leader and he’s going to give us some insight and then look into what it means to be a leader in government and inside of an organization that’s paramilitary and in something that you dedicate your whole life to. So everybody, please welcome Rob Colvert to the podcast. Hey, Rob, how are you?
Rob: Hi Nicole. I’m wonderful. I hope you are.
Nicole: I’m good. I’m good. Did I get all that right? That your entire bio, was that okay?
Rob: Thank you did a wonderful job there.
Nicole: Okay, fantastic. Fantastic. Well, when we start out the podcast, we know that every vibrant culture rises and falls on leadership. So I am collecting definitions of leadership. So what is Rob Colvert’s definition of leadership?
Rob: So my definition of leadership may not be a super polished, eloquent statement on leadership. But I believe leadership is present pretty much in any area of life, whether it’s at home, in your community, on sports teams, volunteer organizations, and of course our occupations. So first and foremost, I believe that leadership is all about people. So people are our most valuable asset we have. No matter what space we work in, whether it’s sales, manufacturing, business, financial institutions, or like me public safety in the fire service, our people are paramount they are our number one asset.
So with that said, we can have the best equipment, we can have the greatest technology and innovation, the nicest and most modern facilities. But without our people, in most cases, we can’t be successful or accomplish the mission of the organization. So with that said, I believe leadership is the commitment to take care of our most valuable asset, which is our people. And when I say take care of them what I specifically mean there is to develop them, to equip them and to empower them to be their very best to carry out the mission and the values and the vision of the organization.
Nicole: I love your definition. Absolutely beautiful. Yeah. So you started out as a volunteer. And then you got yourself hired on to the town of Morresville, and didn’t you work at one fire department prior to that? Is that right?
Rob: I spent four years with the city of Statesville. Before going to Morresville.
Nicole: Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, so, you know, I know that there are people out there are that are in organizations that, like I said earlier, are paramilitary and, you know, or in government. So how does somebody get ahead in an organization like that? Do you think it’s any different than getting ahead in corporate America? And can you kind of tell us like the things that you would attribute your success to because you are currently sitting in a battalion chief role. Is that correct? Are you still a battalion chief? Okay. Yeah. And maybe explain what a battalion chief is. For all those who are not in fire service.
Rob: Sure. So a battalion chief is a mid level manager or leader in an organization of a fire department organization. And what we do is we are tasked with leading the emergency services and operations and service delivery for 24 hour shifts. So we staff, the department, we locate apparatus throughout the city, if move ups are needed to provide service and coverage, we respond to larger incidents and assist with incident management there. We speak to the media and really just keep the shift and the folks running for a 24 hour period. So there’s no service disruption, and the citizens of our community are well protected.
Nicole: Yeah, so you’re like the boss for that 24 hour period, right? Like you’re, you’re large and in charge. Okay, so that’s good. That’s good.
Rob: I prefer the leader.
Nicole: Right, right, right. Okay. So so you, you know, start in for those of you I mean, I’ve learned so much about fire service from working alongside great people like Rob, in participating in different public service and public safety events. And so you know, the fire truck basically has four seats, right? There’s, you got two firefighters in the back, you’ve got the engineer driving the truck, you got the captain in the right hand seat, do I have my story right, Rob?
Rob: Very good. I’m impressed.
Nicole: Well, you know, I do pay attention. Okay. And so you for you started out in the back of a truck, right? You were a firefighter at first. Okay, so how does how does a young man or young woman get themselves, you know, up to the front seat of the truck, and then into a position like you have when you’re actually running the show for a 24 hour period? What do you attribute your success to? What did you do? What did you experience, maybe spots for you that you’ve been lucky or blessed?
Rob: Sure. So like you said, we are a parametric paramilitary organization. So we essentially model civil service testing. So to promote within the fire department and most civil service organizations are similar. There is a, you have to meet the qualifications for the position that you wish to promote to. You’ll take a written test at that point, successful passing of the written test, and you’ll move on to some type of an assessment center, which is often the job skills that you would be required to perform in that position.
So the first step of promotion would be from a firefighter to a senior firefighter. Senior firefighter has more responsibility in driving the fire truck at that point in a in a relief role. So his assessment center or her assessment center may be pumping and driving the fire truck to demonstrate that, and then there’ll be some type of an interview that follows that. Employees are ranked on a scale with a combination of written assessment center and interview and an eligibility list is produced. That’s the easy part. Right? That’s, that’s the known part that’s in black and white. And we can read that in our in our policies. Where I think employees are successful, they are the ones who seek mentorship early on.
We have a very diverse workforce. In our department, I was I was reading this past week, and it kind of hit me in the, in the forehead, if you will, we have four different generations currently within the organization, as far as ages and whatnot. So it’s critical early on to find someone who is a valuable mentor, not just anyone, but someone who will invest in you, and teach you the ropes. So that you’re not just qualified on paper to do something, but you have the knowledge, skills and abilities to be successful in those positions.
Nicole: I love it. Okay, so I think that what you’re saying is applicable anywhere really?
Rob: Exactly right.
Nicole: Yeah. And so don’t miss what Rob said, everybody. He said, you know, really, you’ve got to make sure you have the job skills for the next level. So you know, get a hold of what, you know, the difference between a firefighter and a senior firefighter is or what the difference between, you know, being, you know, a customer service rep and being the customer service manager, right, like, what’s the difference between those two jobs. You know, make sure you’ve got the job skills, and I love what you said about taking on responsibility, and then seeking out a mentor.
Now I know I’m gonna I’m gonna freestyle here a minute Rob. I know you had a mentor that you adored, and, and really helped you out in your life. So will you talk a little bit about your mentor and what he was like and what he did for you? Because I think this this is really helpful for people, because people are like, oh, my gosh, how do I find a mentor? And what I heard you say was seek one out, find somebody who is valuable, who doesn’t mind teaching you the ropes. You got to ask, is that the bottom line?
Rob: They’re not going to come to you, Nicole. They’re not going to they’re not going to seek you out. But if if you value someone enough, they’re not going to say no. What what a compliment. Will you mentor me? My mentor is we are probably two of the most different people that were would ever cross cross paths. I think I was probably in my late 20s, when I met retired fire chief Roy Spell. He was the first African American fire chief for the City of Greenville, North Carolina, and I went to a class that he taught.
And I can’t, I really can’t explain it, to be honest, but something about him just ignited a passion in me for leadership for, you know, caring for others, putting people first and, and, and doing the right thing. That’s, that’s something he just constantly spoke about is doing the right thing. And it’s simple. It’s a simple thought. But after the class was over, I grabbed his cell phone number, and just asked, hey, can can I contact you at some point, he’s like, sure. And, you know, he, he and I stayed in very close contact for a number of years. We’re not as close as we once were.
Because what I failed to say is when when, when I told you that we’re very different. He’s in his 70s now, and I’m 42. So we’re very, we’re very different from one another, right? But what a valuable mentor he is. He, he helped me to achieve my captain’s promotion, just through walking through experiences with me of just 40 years in the fire service for him. And he was in town when I was when I made captain, and I actually gave him my captain’s bars just as a gift to him for what he had done for me. But just a valuable, valuable man.
Nicole: Yeah, so that’s awesome. So listen, guys, he just said, I just asked for a cell phone number, call the guy, the guy’s probably flattered. And I think the other thing that’s so cool about fire service, and really all of the public safety organizations that I work with, is there is. There is just like this honor and respect, I think the people that are drawn to that field of work, it’s almost like a calling on your life. It’s more than just a J O B and, and so if a young man calls you up and says, will you be my mentor? It’s it’s like almost like a no brainer. Of course, I will help you right. So I’m sure that’s what Roy did. Well, I’m curious, but was there one, like pivotal or amazing or piece of advice that like, it comes to your mind, every time you think about something you’re about to do you’re like, this is what Roy would do. Is there a piece of advice or something that he gave you that really helped you out, or a particular lesson you learned?
Rob: So he is he is really big on taking care of your people, the team. You know, we’re all very different individuals, if we really examine ourselves and each other, we’re very different. Whether it’s our background, our our generation that we were, you know, raised in or our belief system or experiences that we had growing up or even as adults. So we’re very different individuals. And he, he is, he’s always spoke about our differences don’t define us, but take care of each other, and the strength of the team will be incredible. And that just that, that I’m very relational as a person, naturally, if you will.
So I resonated deeply with because the fire service, again, you said, is a paramilitary organization. So most of the leadership with inside of the organization is, is typically an autocratic or a bureaucratic, sometimes democratic leadership style where the way that orders are given. And, you know, it doesn’t involve the people so much to have to carry out their the works. I kind of subscribe to a servant style leadership, personally. I didn’t even know it was called that until recently, as I was doing some research and reading, but that just resonates with me is taking care of the people the most important asset that we have.
Now naturally, there are standards and rules and regulations and policies that these people have to meet, right. It’s not just a free for all of make the people happy, and we’ll move forward. But if you can invest in them, and spend the time to grow them and develop them and empower them, they will meet those requirements, because they’re, they’re, I think, their focus or that they buy into the mission and the service of the organization, if that makes sense.
Nicole: It makes total sense. Yeah. And, you know, when we’re saying paramilitary, just to be clear, you know, in the fire service, there’s, you know, there’s the chief he’s the jefe. He’s the boss, you know, then we have the visit the assistant chief, is that the correct title Rob?
Rob: So our rank structure within an organization is the fire chief. Again is the is the department head and then under him or her as a as a deputy fire chief.
Nicole: Deputy. Okay.
Rob: Yeah. And then and then you’re right then as assistant chiefs below them and assistant chiefs or battalion chief And then it rolls on down, correct.
Nicole: Yeah. And I think that like the modern day public service leader really needs to understand that in the past, you know, I don’t know even before 2000, maybe even it’s, it’s kind of been really evolutionising in the in the, in this new millennium. But before then it was very much like I’m the chief just do what I say don’t ask a lot of questions, you know, because somebody’s got to be in charge. If the buildings on fire only one person can you know, tell us what the strategy is to put the fire out right? Otherwise we’ll have too many chiefs and not enough indians as they say. And so go ahead, yeah, jump in.
Rob: Can I make a comment there. So, in the fire department or the fire service, we exist in two very different spaces. So we work a 24 hour shift we, we report at 7:30 in the morning, and then go home the next morning. So there’s really two spaces we exist in. And the first one is the emergency scene, which is, you know, fire calls, medical calls, car wrecks, hazmat, technical rescue, whatever that may be for that day. That’s space number one. And Nicole that’s when a firefighter is at his very best, because they’ve trained for that.
So they’re at their very best there. But then space number two is the firehouse. So we live and work for 24 hours with typically the same individuals. Each firehouse has four to five to 10 people assigned to it for a 24 hour period. So you’re exactly right, in the paramilitary structure, you know, especially on the incident scene, I am the chief. I am in charge, and this is what we’re going to do. And that’s easy for us. Right? That’s, that’s super easy. But where in my world, and I’m sure lots of other listeners when we get to the firehouse, that’s when the leadership challenges begin. So it makes sense.
Nicole: That’s exactly where I was headed. You nailed it. Because I think that, you know, the thing about firefighters is that they understand yes, only one person can tell me get the hose out or don’t get the hose out or whatever. But when you get back to the firehouse, that’s where I think a lot of the true influence goes on. Right? And the developing of people or where the mentoring can take place. And really, that’s the stuff that molds and shapes the man or the woman that goes to the scene and is an all star right.
And I don’t I don’t know, for those of you who are not firefighters who are listening, but did you just hear all the things our firefighters do? I think the other thing about our fire service and also our police forces that are out there, people don’t really understand the breadth and the depth and the scope of everything you do. You think firefighter you think put out fires, but these these guys and gals are trained to do so many things. They are true, true true professionals and lifelong learners. So I have such amazing respect for you all. Alright, so.
So yes, at the firehouse, which would mean we like you know, if you’re in corporate america at the firehouse means like you’re in your office, and you have a young man or woman in there that you’re mentoring you’re talking to you’re building relationships with, you’re having one on ones working on employee development, that’s at the firehouse. And when we go out to give presentations and sell and do whatever, we’re fighting the fires, right. So I love this metaphor. Okay. All right. So my next question for you is what what do you think the skills are of the most successful leaders out there? What what do really successful leaders do?
Rob: So not to be repetitive, but again, just I’ve got to mention it, it’s all about people, you know, it is all about people. So, you know, valuing others, and the relationships you have with them are crucial. Again, you know, the, the firehouse relationship that we have in our world is essentially a big family. So with, again, at the firehouse is a family type atmosphere. Not so much in that we watch sitcoms together, and play board games. It’s more along the lines of you know, a firefighter who works for 30 years on shift spends a third of his life or her life there in that space. So 1/3 of their life is spent there. 24 hours out of every 96 are spent at the fire station. So there’s there’s an incredible close bond that comes with those individuals. But not only is there a bond there, but there’s also hardships, there’s also we get on each other’s nerves, you know, things like that.
So we have to monitor and foster and feed those relationships. I think that’s and it doesn’t matter what business you’re in. Your listeners may go home at five o’clock after working in the office. We go home the next morning, but it’s the same skills and abilities that make leaders successful. There’s a great book I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of a book called Tribe is by Sebastian Junger. It’s a very simple and it’s a quick and easy read. I’ve listened to it about four times on Libby. And I’ve read it twice. And it’s it’s a book that talks about why tribal communities thrive, and how each individual essentially makes up a cog in the wheel of a tribe. And that accurately describes firehouse relationships.
But it can be applied to to any, any workforce or any profession out there. Firefighters are known for having side jobs and whatnot. Because of the schedule, we work. So inside of our firehouses, we have carpenters, plumbers, electricians, groundskeepers, just a wide range of people. But they are a part of our tribe. The tribe may not get along all the time, but we know how to fix our relationships, and move forward with those. So valuing people would be the first one I would give. The second one would be humility. So being able to control our egos, as leaders or as employees, either way, if we’re going to build relationships, and we’re going to lead others, we have to have a high degree of humility. We have to be able to control our ego. Because I feel like if we don’t do that, and we have an employee that we’re trying to remember, it’s all about people.
So when they come to us and ask us to mentor them for advice or whatnot, if our ego is in the way, we’re not going to listen. We’re not going to hear other perspectives, we’re not going to adapt, we’re not going to seek growth. We’re not going to seek development for ourselves. And quite frankly, we’re going to get complacent as leaders or or as employees. You know, there’s a Bible verse in Proverbs that says, pride leads to disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom. And I think that is spot on valuable for anyone, but especially leaders. So number two would definitely be humility for me. And can I give you one more?
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. I love it.
Rob: The next one is is ownership or responsibility. There is a consultant who is a retired Navy SEAL. His name is Jocko Willink, he runs a company or a consulting firm Echelon Front there on the West Coast. And his, his programs are centered around what he describes as extreme ownership. He has a book, he’s a best selling author, Extreme Ownership is one of the probably six or seven books that he’s written. And what his premise is, is that the leader is responsible for everything, like everything. And when I first read that, I was like, wait a minute, so if an employee does something wrong over here, I’m responsible, it was hard to wrap my mind around.
But the more I think about that, the more I’ve read his books, the more I do buy into that, okay, because if we allow it to happen, if we know it’s not a proper behavior, or it’s a, it’s a violation of policy or standard, or we didn’t communicate the message clearly, to where it was understood, and something was not completed, we are responsible for that. So I think ownership and responsibility are huge. We should we have to lead by example. And we have to demonstrate accountability. But not just accountability for others accountability for ourselves too. In my workspace, we, other employees know where to hold me accountable. And I’ve asked them to do that. Can I tell you a story? Is that okay?
Nicole: Please, please.
Rob: This past week, we have staff meeting and a sat with six of my direct reports. I prefer to call them teammates, but just to set the stage. They are folks that work with me, that I supervise, but they’re my they’re my team members. And we had we had a staff meeting this week, just to review the monthly operations of the department, things coming up and whatnot. And, you know, I’ll be honest, the whole COVID situation has been hard on every profession, okay. But think about the the environment that I described to you earlier. The closeness of a firehouse for 24 hours and then apply CDC and public health guidelines to that space. So, at the end, when our meeting ended, I took the opportunity to admit mistakes on my part.
In other words, over the past year, there have been some complacency issues that I have personally. I have some passion issues within me that have affected my leadership and that have affected that are naturally affecting those that are that I work with. And we spent a few minutes to just, I spent a few minutes to explain to them that, you know, I was off, I was out of integrity, let me say it that way. That I was out of integrity, and that I wasn’t responsible or taking ownership for myself, or the things that were occurring. I explained to them the steps that we’re going to put in place, I apologized to them, and gave them three areas that they would see improvement on immediately.
And I’m going to tell you what, the looks on the faces when we walked out of there were just, it was it was a shock, maybe maybe not shock, but just like, wow. And I earned leadership capital with those six individuals by having that conversation, as simple as that was. Because if again, on ownership and responsibility, we have to be willing to not hold other others accountable only because we’re really good at that, Nicole, we’re really good at holding other people accountable. I think you may agree with that. Where we struggle is holding ourselves accountable, and taking the actions to get back into integrity.
Nicole: Yeah, I love what you’re saying. Yeah, so let me just say, and you’ve probably heard this on a different podcast, but I think it bears repeating. And I know that in the conversations Rob and I have had over the years that, you know, I think people are confused about integrity, they think they just have it. It’s like a permanent state of being or something. And the truth of the matter is about integrity is it comes and goes. I mean it you’re a human and so you sometimes you do things that are not the highest and the best, or make things whole because the word integrity comes from like the word integer, which means a whole number, like a whole person has integrity.
But there are times where I’m I’m broken, I’m tired, I’m got my mind is not in the right place. And so I say things or do things that are out of integrity. And so it’s being able to catch those moments. And I really celebrate you that you caught yourself. I think what you displayed there was this wonderful skill of self awareness. And I think leaders, you know, the question is what’s the most important skill of a successful leader and so I think you know, that self awareness. But I love what you also said about extreme ownership. We’ll give us the author of that again and the guy that’s got the podcast and the company again, we want to know.
Rob: So the, the leader of that company is Jocko. Jocko, J O C K O Willink. W I L L I N K. His company, his company is called. I’m sorry, Echelon Front. Echelon Front. So he is a retired Navy SEAL commander, and kind of what we’re talking about here, Nicole, he takes the Navy SEAL military side of things and applies it to normal business. And the it’s just good stuff. It’s good stuff.
Nicole: That’s fantastic. Okay, yeah. And then the other thing that you said that I didn’t want people to, to miss is this concept of leadership capital. Which, you know, when we think about capital, we think about money, like, you know, I have a lot of capital, I have a lot of money. But what we’re saying here is that whenever I show up and act like a leader who has extreme ownership of the situation, I’m putting per se leadership money in the bank. And people are like, oh, I can I can count on Rob. I can count on a leader who has that humility. Alright, so those are fantastic. All right. So I love that.
Rob: Can I make a comment on the leadership capital?
Nicole: Of course. Please.
Rob: It’s it’s you just described building it right. Depositing it in the bank. We quickly withdraw that if we’re not careful. You know what I’m saying? Like, if we can’t tell you another story?
Nicole: Yeah. And I just was thinking, you know, you can go bankrupt tomorrow.
Rob: I was telling you a great story about a success with a staff meeting. I’m going to tell you a story where I failed last week. I had an employee who called me. We were working and I made a decision at work that impacted his crew, there was some some staffing changes that I made. And he called me to ask me some questions about that. And we are all impacted by outside influences, and lots of things go on our life. And I would just describe it as it wasn’t a great day. You know, then we are caught off guard sometimes or deal with days that aren’t just aren’t great. And this employee called to discuss that with me.
And I think for the most part, his his questions were genuine, right? But I didn’t like it. And I didn’t like that he was questioning me. My ego from just a few minutes ago stepped in and instead of the humility part, and I snapped on him pretty quickly, and, you know, just told him because that was that was decision that I made. And that’s the decision we’re gonna go with and he’s gonna like it. And I spent my leadership capital like that.
Nicole: That was the old paramilitary pre 2000 style.
Rob: Whatever capital that I had with him, not necessarily all of it, but I spent some of my leadership capital quickly.
Nicole: Big withdrawal.
Rob: That’s right. So it works both ways. We can earn it, but we can spend it unwisely if we’re not careful.
Nicole: 100% All right. I love what you’re saying. Yeah. So, you know, pay attention to the deposits and the withdrawals that you’re making. When you demonstrate your leadership. This is a huge kind of cool perspective that Rob Colvert is giving you, you lucky listeners. All right, so let’s look at our next question. And so we gave me three great things about how people can be successful, but what are the things that people do that struggle? I know the opposites of these are true, you know, that if you take all these leadership withdrawals, and, you know, you’re you’re not having humility, you’re not taking care of other people? Obviously, those are going to be things that struggle, but what other things do you see that leaders do that that immediately put them in the struggle place?
Rob: So I’m going to give some examples of public government, okay. Not that we’re bad people. Not that we don’t have it going on, you know, but we public government, the fire service, municipal government is governed in so many different directions. So we have, county influence, state influence, federal influence, just lots of different things. So I say that to say consistency, or the lack thereof can destroy a leader. It can destroy a leader’s ability to lead employees, we can lose credibility, and just create confusion and damage the morale.
So consistency is critical, I think, for a leader to remain successful. So do the employees know what to expect from the leader every time? Not 50% of the time, not 75% of the time. But every time? Is it the same? Is the behavior consistent? Is the mindset the standards and rules that will be enforced? Are they the same every time? I think that is crucial in leadership. Another one I would give you would be communication. Okay. Simple as that is, I know, communication is so simple. But you know, where I think we fail as leaders in communication is listening to others.
So many influences can impact that. I think one of them is our ego that we’ve already talked about, but actively listening to your employees, and the folks that you work with. Engage with those employees in conversation. Even if it’s tough conversations. They’re not going to get any easier if we continue to put it off and wait. Have those tough conversations, plan them out naturally. But listen, and have tough conversations when needed.
Nicole: Awesome, yeah. So the struggle bus happens when you’re inconsistent, don’t set up expectations, and you’re not listening to your people. Those are the big three takeaways I got from that. And this bears repeating again, I have my favorite quote from one of the master coaches I work with, he said uncommunicated because that hits the button on communication. Uncommunicated expectations are a premeditated opportunity to be disappointed. And I will tell you that that is absolutely true.
Rob: That’s a great quote.
Nicole: Isn’t that great? I mean, I just can’t tell that I tell people, you might want to write this down. Uncommunicated expectations are a premeditated opportunity to be disappointed. So if you say, you know, and that goes back to that extreme ownership you were talking about, right? Like if you’re like, you know what, you know, why doesn’t he do what I tell him? Well, obviously, you missed the boat on communication, setting expectations, and maybe you’re not consistent. You know the minute the leader is not consistent, we give permission to everybody else to be inconsistent. I mean, that’s just the minute what he didn’t do it all the time. I’m not sure I have to do it all the time. Right.
Rob: What does that do inside of your organization? What you, the point you just made plus inconsistency. We have a we’re upside down for a little bit with morale and attitudes. And it just it creates issues with inside of the organization. Quickly.
Nicole: 100% 100% Yeah. And you have what I call a hot mess, right? That’s what I call it. It’s like, oh, we got to get this unmessy. Alright, alright. So here’s, here’s, here’s my next question for you. And so you know, when you think about what’s going on in the world, I mean, hello, everybody out there that’s listening to Rob Colvert talk about being a public servant during COVID. You just you think you’re you’re tired of your mask, you think you’re tired of all the stuff that has to happen? I know that COVID has been a big struggle for you guys. But if you look out into the future, what has COVID taught you? And, you know, what do you see on the horizon? What do you think leaders need to be careful of moving forward? The biggest challenges for leaders today?
Rob: Specifically, I have a couple of those. But specifically, what COVID has taught me as a leader, and I think that is teaching our employees is that we can’t be comfortable with the normal. And I don’t mean to be repetitive. But going back to the beginning of this, this podcast, we talked a lot about firehouse life. Man how firefighters love that. Man, that’s one of the draws to the firehouse is the bad coffee around an awesome kitchen table. Right. The late night conversations about maybe not just work related, but family related and struggles they’re having employees are having.
The firehouse kitchen table is where all that takes place. And you know, it’s not my organization’s fault, but it’s CDC and local local health rules, created a drove a wedge in that normalcy for us. So COVID has taught me that we can’t just rely on the normal. We have to be ready to, to adapt and overcome, but to welcome that too. You know what I mean, not just not just have the mindset I can overcome, or I can adapt. But welcome the challenge and and change that and seek input from others on how to remain successful, if you will.
Nicole: Yeah, 100%. Because here’s, here’s the truth of the matter. Things, change is inevitable, right. And if, and if you think that, you know, you’re gonna be able to rest or whatever, you need to take time to rest, but every day is full of times to rest, and times to adapt. Right. It’s just the, the yin and the yang of it, you know, it’s not one or the other for a day. It’s even mixed into your day is that ability to overcome and adapt. And one thing I want to say about what you’ve just shared, you can’t be comfortable with the normal you got to adapt and overcome is, I think a lot of people because we are kind of maybe fatigued by what’s going on in the world.
And you know, if you’re listening to the news, that’ll put you right in the fatigue zone that is that we do have like three figuratively speaking parts of our brain. We have one that says, you know, what we could do to change things and make things better. Like you have that brain I think it’s like a God given thing that you we that humans have ideas, right? Like, we all have ideas, you know what we could do? And then you but then there’s the second part of you that I think is hardwired into us for survival is there’s this voice that comes up or this thing that comes up in your mind says, hey, be careful. There’ll be a lot of work. You’re not sure you want to do that are you? That’s that’s different. That’s not normal. You know, that voice comes up in your head. And I think the third part of our brain, figuratively speaking, is this part of your brain that says, you know what?
That obstacle that I see is the raw material for a strategy. That’s the raw material. So how can I MacGyver that? So I think there’s those three parts of your brain. And that’s how you can adapt and overcome. So I just wanted to share that. All right. Well, here here is my final question for you is, you know, there might be a young firefighter, young public servant, a young person that wants to be a leader someday, and they’re listening and they say, gosh, I wish Rob would download one more amazing piece of leadership advice. What would that piece of leadership advice be?
Rob: So this is, this is my cliche advertisement of the day. Okay.
Nicole: Okay. I like it. Go ahead.
Rob: So, we’ve heard it said before, and it may have been said on your podcast before, leadership is a journey it’s not a destination. When I was promoted in 2013, I didn’t understand that. Okay. That’s, that’s, it’s wonderful to hear that, but until you dissect it and understand it, and live it. I think it does, it may not mean a lot to you. When I was promoted in 2013, I was a very young guy, still. And I had benchmarks in my mind that I felt like when I reach these benchmarks, I’ll have obtained leadership.
Does that make sense? You know, I’ll be there. I’ll have arrived and I can put the leadership vehicle in park, but that’s not true. So some of the benchmarks that I had were, you know, respect of the team members that I work with, or confidence, education, things like that. But you know what, we’re always growing and evolving. When we take trips, pre GPS. Okay, let’s, let’s think back to that, okay, we had.
Nicole: Oh my gosh. The maps that you had to unfold.
Rob: The maps, we had to open up and look at and plan our trip. And we often got lost. And us fellows out there are not great at pulling over and asking for directions. Even if our beautiful brides are in the passenger seat saying we need to pull over. Those trips are, I think you can you can apply those trips, and having to pull over and ask for directions, as leadership is not a journey, it’s a destination. There are things that happen to us. And there are things that we deal with, and situations and challenges that are those times that we do pull over and ask for directions.
And someone is kind enough and wise enough to point us in the right direction. And we continue on down the road. I don’t think for a for a quality leader, there’s a destination in sight, we should always seek to grow ourselves, grow others. And like I’ve already said Nicole, treat others well. Empower them and remember, it’s all about people. So don’t get stuck on it’s a destination. All those little stops you make on the way and all those times you stopped to fill up along your leadership journey, are valuable spots to improve yourself as a leader.
Nicole: Yeah, fantastic. Fantastic. All right. So here, here’s the final piece of advice. He said. Get on the journey. Keep it in drive. Don’t think you can pull over and park. You can take a rest. We talked about that you can take a rest but you got to keep moving. You got to adapt, overcome and then grow others, empower them. I love it. Alright, so the other thing I want you guys to notice is that Rob is a reader. I cannot emphasize how important it is to read. And so I just wanted to say again, because some of your like, what were those two books he mentioned? He mentioned a book called Tribe by Sebastian Junger and then Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink, am I saying his name right?
Rob: I’m gonna give you two I’m gonna give. I’m gonna give them to you again, Nicole. So, Tribe.
Nicole: Oh, yeah, we got it. Yep. Perfect.
Rob: And then Leadership Strategies. I’m sorry. Extreme Ownership. Here’s the spelling.
Nicole: Willink. Willink. Okay. Got it.
Rob: Can I give you two more?
Nicole: Yeah, yeah, yes, we are all readers on this. Listening to this podcast.
Rob: Jocko Willink also has his newest book. It’s called Leadership Strategies and Tactics. And it’s called a field manual for leadership. And it’s, it’s, it’s cool because you can go to the index, and you can look up. I don’t know a new leader. And boom, you can go there into his book, and you can see his advice on that. I’m not necessarily, I just I appreciate that. So Leadership Strategies and Tactics. And then the last one I’m going to give you is, this is my all time favorite book. Okay. My children have read it and I’ve read it and had to buy another copy. Okay. Don’t laugh Nicole.
Nicole: I will not laugh. You know I won’t
Rob: It’s called Make Your Bed. And it’s from William McRaven. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of William McRaven. He was a Navy SEAL commander. And what a simple book he has, okay. With simple principles. But if you adapt or if you adopt them in your lives, you can be a successful person and a successful leader.
Nicole: Yeah. So Rob, correct me if I’m not getting this right. But I as I understand it, making your bed if you just get out of bed, make your bed. You’ve already had one success for the day.
Rob: Exactly.
Nicole: Is that right? Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I love that. I love that. Okay, so if your beds not made and you’re listening to this, and it’s one here, we’re we’re recording right now. It’s nine after one. It’s not too late to go back upstairs. Get that bed made. So there you go. That’s right. Well, let’s say that somebody wants to get a hold of hold of you, Rob, is there a way that people can reach out to you?
Rob: So I’ll give you a personal email address versus the city email? My personal address email address is Rob R O B Colvert C O L V E R T. So robcolvert@me.com.
Nicole: Okay. Fantastic. All right. So Rob would love to hear from you. And of course, you can make comments on the podcast, we’d really appreciate it. If you would press like on the podcast, we’d appreciate that as well. And Rob, it’s been an absolute delight to be with you. I have enjoyed every hour I’ve ever had the privilege of spending with you. So thank you so much for being on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast.
Rob: I’ve enjoyed being here, Nicole. Thanks for having me.
Voiceover: Ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her strategies, systems and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email Nicole@nicolegreer.com. And be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at nicolegreer.com.
