If 66% of businesses fail within the first 10 years…
How do you not only avoid failure…
But become a power brand in your market?
You need to unlock sustainable revenue growth—but where do you start?
Luckily for you, my guest Jackson Calame coined the 8 Pillars of Sustainable Revenue Growth.
As the founder and CEO of First Class Business, Jackson has used these principles to help entrepreneurs optimize their conversion rates and become market leaders—and in this episode, he’s here to share them with you.
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Jackson Calame: Conversion rate optimization begins again with making sure that the visionary has a good vision and making sure he communicates or she communicates that vision with the rest of the staff, the rest the people who support it, it’ll also affect the prospects that come in as well on the client’s experience.
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast with professional speaker, coach and consultant Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer, and they call me the vibrant coach and I am here with none other than Jackson Calame.
Jackson: Yes, ma’am.
Nicole Greer: Right. I’m here with Jackson. Jackson teaches visionary entrepreneurs. That’s why I showed up, so he could help me, with service oriented organizations how to unlock sustainable revenue growth. How many of y’all would like to just see the numbers go up, up up up up? And expand their legacy by becoming a power brand in their market. That’s what we all want. We want to be vibrant, lit up, power brand. All right. 66% of businesses fail within the first 10 years. I’ve beat the mark, Jackson. Jackson teaches businesses not only how to avoid failure, but how to win by becoming a true leader in their market, having worked in and launched and scaled several successful business startups in the b2b industry, and SAS space, servicing 1000s of SMBs.
That’s a lot of letters and acronyms you should probably explain. Because there’s all sorts of people who are growing and learning that are listening to this podcast. Jackson has seen firsthand what causes these failures and their successes. Please welcome to Build a Vibrant Culture podcast, Jackson. We’ll put in a very large soundtrack right there of applause. It’ll be amazing. All right, so I’m so glad you’re here. Tell me how, right out of the gate, I’m collecting answers to this question, which is how do you build a vibrant culture? You got to do that in order to become a power brand and all that other stuff.
Jackson: You do. You nailed it right there, you have to it’s part of the eight pillar system that we believe in. It’s actually pillar number two. So right behind, making sure that the visionary in charge of that brand is on point and seeing clearly with what they want to build. The very next step is building their culture and making sure that they make space for the people involved in the program to also contribute to that vision. And you can’t do that if you forget to include people and set a tone for what it is you’re working on together. So I think your brand is on point with that.
Nicole: Thank you. All right. So pillar number two is culture?
Jackson: Absolutely. So with when it comes to building brands, there’s a there’s another acronym I’ll throw out there called CRO. In fact, most people have never heard of it, even great business owners have never heard of it. And that’s called Conversion Rate Optimization, not the chief revenue officer. Two different acronyms, well same acronym for two different things. But conversion rate optimization is something that very large businesses and very successful digital businesses do to improve their conversion rates and their online funnels. But you can’t improve an online funnel. Without improving the traditional funnel, what’s going on in house. Let’s take a dentist, for example. If I create an ad, that blows up the dentist office with leads, but somebody’s answering the phone and saying hello, hello.
What do you want? That that marketing is going to is going to lose, you have to have an office culture, you have to build a culture of hospitality. You’ve got to make sure that your people are taken care of so that your people can then turn around and take care of your customers. So conversion rate optimization begins, again, with making sure that the visionary has a good vision and making sure he communicates or she communicates that vision with the rest of the staff, the rest of the people who support it, it’ll it’ll also affect the prospects that come in as well on the client’s experience.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. So is pillar number one the vision?
Jackson: Yes. Pillar number one is the vision.
Nicole Greer: Okay. All right, y’all. Everybody get a pen and paper out, we’re gonna write these down. The eight pillars. So the first one is a vision. And gosh, Jackson, I talk to customers all the time, my clients, because you know, I do business coaching, as well as you do. And when I talk to them, like the whole idea of going out on a limb and saying, this is where we’re headed. I think that COVID has kind of affected that a little bit and everybody’s so dialed into the P&L, that it’s hard to like, lift up from that and just imagine what the future could be. I’m wondering if you have any tips and tricks for those who are scared to go out on a limb, cast that vision and get that going? I think it’s the funniest thing in the world.
Jackson: It can be. It can be. Well, I would I would like to turn that back to you, Nicole as well. Like what, what tip or trick have you seen working lately? Because I live in, I’m very fortunate. I live in Texas. And in Texas, we don’t we don’t tend to focus a lot on the whole COVID aspect. Don’t get me wrong, we understand we’ve lost people too. But, you know, we’re very focused on you know, if you go to the grocery store, you don’t see very many people with a mask on, you see a very rare few.
So a lot of people are trying to get back to normal, even though gas prices are certainly still hurting us. But, you know, we I don’t know where I take responsibility for what I do. And I decided to focus on what I can control not what I can’t control, but what about yourself? What, what are you seeing, making a dent in helping people, I don’t know, capture that life and hope again?
Nicole: Okay, well, the first thing I tried to teach people is that attitude is a player on your team. It may not have a desk, it may not have a laptop, it may not have a cell phone number, you may not be able to dial up or invite it to a company meeting. However, attitude is present everywhere inside an organization. So, I suggest to people that they really focus in on attitude, and that attitude be a thing that is developed on top of this hope for a better future.
You know, I think that’s the only thing that makes a company go around is like, you know, our company, when people engage with it, whatever product or service we have, it gives them a better future. And, of course, if we have more vision casting going on inside of our organizations, especially the C suite needs to do it. I mean, in terms of like, the chief executive officer has to do it. But then each individual guy or gal, the CFO, the COO, all the Os, they all have to have a specific vision for their department. And really, I think that’s where it falls apart. So.
Jackson: I love it. I had to write that down.
Nicole: So if the if the whole organization has one big fat vision, that’s great. But then all the way down to the front line, it has to be kind of told to that person in terms of what their job is. So it’s a much bigger skill set and a much bigger job than just like having some vision statement on a website. And I think that’s where it falls apart. What do you think about my my theory, this idea that everybody’s gotta have a good attitude?
Jackson: I wrote it down. I wrote it down. But here’s, here’s what I wrote down attitude is a player on your team. Like, you don’t think to persona fie the emotions, you know, often, but it’s such a, it’s such a powerful tool, because it’s not just that, you have to have a good attitude, you know, but you have to realize that if that bad attitude shows up, you know, yes, it’s still a player on your team. But it could be a player that’s toxic and harming. I’m a big team sport person. So I can immediately imagine like, oh my gosh, like, if you’re bringing a bad attitude to the to the table for the game, that shadow, you know, is going to be there wreaking havoc on the experience. So no, well said, I love that.
Nicole: I’ll tell you a quick story. I have so many customer service stories and so many stories everywhere I go, but I was in Lynchburg, Virginia yesterday, this little restaurant shall remain nameless. But I was in this restaurant. And this guy took our entire order. And then he looked at me and he said, oh, did I tell you it’s gonna take at least 30 minutes for your food to get done? And I said, no, you didn’t tell me that. And he said, I’m sorry. I said, no, it’s okay. It’s I’m on vacation. You know, it’s July fourth. It’s not a big deal. It’s all fine.
So I came back in after about 20 minutes or so to use the ladies room. And I was walking right past the open kitchen. And the gentleman cooking the eggs, threw his pan up against the stove and said, there’ll be no more food until somebody does some dishes. I mean, he’s totally in the open air situation. So what did I think about for the next 20 minutes? Because it ended up being 40 minutes before we got our food. My food is going to taste horrible. I wonder if the dishes will be clean. And I wonder if I’ll ever get my food.
So like this whole experience of going to this cute little place downtown Lynchburg, Virginia was ruined by this guy’s attitude. All he had to do was say, hey, can somebody help me get some dishes washed, please. And he could have done it in a quiet demure manner. That’s a perfectly example. It’s little, but it’s like that’s happening everywhere. It’s happening at Bank of America. It’s happening at wherever.
Jackson: Don’t get me started on Bank of America.
Nicole: Well, you’re right. Let’s not get started on that. We’ll be totally derailed through the whole thing. Okay. All right. So vision. Yeah. So that would be my advice on vision. Okay, so number one is vision. Everybody write this down. And it’s the eight pillars of let me finish finish that sentence for me or that phrase for me.
Jackson: The eight pillars? Of growth. Of sustainable revenue growth.
Nicole: Okay, everybody write that down. Sustainable revenue growth.
Jackson: It is one of the most boring taglines for people who are starting out. And when I say that in a networking, well I say it for a reason. Because all of the newbies ignore me. But I see the people who’ve been in business for eight to 10 years all go like this.
Nicole: Write it down, write it down.
Jackson: They want to meet. They want to talk immediately. Because they know how hard business is.
Nicole: Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, so vision and then there’s culture. What’s the third pillar of your sustainable revenue growth formula? I’m gonna add formula just to make it sexy. What?
Jackson: Yeah, absolutely. Management.
Nicole: Okay, management. Alright. So, management. Okay, let me ask you this. What’s the difference, or is there a difference between management and leadership? What do you thinking on that one?
Jackson: I think there’s definitely a difference. Unfortunately, I believe that the difference is that management, proper management can’t exclude leadership. But what we know as management is the process of kind of micromanaging or trying to control versus trying to lead. So our management style is about just that. What’s unfair about the market is you can’t teach leadership in a way that that synonymously pulls in management, right. From a marketing standpoint, you have to talk about management. But in reality, great management is in essence, leadership.
Nicole: Okay, yeah. And, you know, you mentioned this, this phrase, micromanaging, I don’t know if it’s a word or a phrase, but either way, it is, it is a hot thing. Let me I do a lot of recruiting, Jackson. And so I’ll interview people. One of my questions is, if I gave you a Mr. or Mrs. Potato Head toy, and I said, make your ideal leader, your ideal manager, you know, put together all the parts of what they would or would not do, and people laugh, they think that’s funny. But then the first thing out of everybody’s mouth is I don’t want to be micromanaged. What do you think’s going on out there? I’m really exploring this idea because I do think things need to be micromanaged until they’re done correctly. I mean, but then after that, you should let up off on the gas. But what are your thoughts about micromanaging? It’s a hot thing.
Jackson: Interesting one. I can see a lot of people wanting to leave Mr. Potato Head’s mouth off.
Nicole: Like this, right.
Jackson: So yeah, it’s a you know, it is a tough subject, you have to have things done, right. But you also got to lead by example. I think it’s a big part of it. We as leaders have to learn how to listen, you know, that’s communication is probably the greatest skill that a leader can develop. And communication, there’s several forms of it. My favorite, instance or learning in regards to this. This is through trial and error, by the way through the wisdom that comes from failure in the process. So people often listen and react, we hear something and we get defensive about it. You know, you’re the worst boss ever, right? We react or I don’t like working with you anyway. Right?
Then there’s the flip side, there’s then there’s the next step, which is listen and respond, which isn’t a full depth of listening. You know, I might, I might hear that and say, well, you know, you could be doing better yourself, you know. I’m maybe I’m not reacting, but I’m, I’m taking a little bit softer tone to it, or what do you want me to do better? You know, that’s still more of a response than a reaction. But it’s still got that level of defensiveness. And then there’s listening to understand, you know. And listening to understand is kind of that super star zone of listening that I’m really aiming for. And what happens there is, instead of responding right away, you want to ask better questions to understand.
So okay, you know, I realize I haven’t met your expectations as a boss. Let’s talk about that. What do you mean by that? And that’s, that’s going the more doctor approach, right? So a doctor doesn’t just say, oh, you have a fever? Let me let me slam medicine down your throat. I hope not. They’re supposed to, they’re supposed to ask, okay, what else is going on with your body? Let’s take other assessments. Let’s figure out everything that’s going on with this. That’s really that key of communication, and being willing to listen to understand people can solve a lot of problems with relationships and with business.
Nicole: Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. So that really bears repeating. So everybody, listen up. We don’t want to listen to react. We don’t want to listen to respond, but we want to listen to understand and that is the superstar level. And in order to do that, we have to ask a few questions. That’s like, the secret sauce in the superstar level is asking the questions. I couldn’t agree more. Right. And I think when you say, you know, people react, that’s when they’re at the ego level. You know, their ego goes, oh, you’re unhappy? Well, I’ll just fight right back.
Jackson: Yeah, it’s usually a very big sign of immaturity.
Nicole: 100%, 100%.
Jackson: It’s hard to acknowledge, but that’s you got to become self aware if you’re going to lead people, because there’s just what most people do, you know, and most people have that that reaction and you got to you got to maintain your leadership zone where it’s like, okay, that person reacted, but it’s my opportunity to, to calm things down, by listening to understand, well, why did they react now? So it’s a big part of marketing as well, is listening.
Nicole: Yeah, I agree. I agree. And so also, it I love what you said it’s a sign of maturity, it’s a sign of emotional intelligence. All those things kind of weave all together magically right there. I couldn’t agree more. Okay. All right. So we’ve got eight pillars of sustainable revenue growth formula. And so the first one is vision. The second one is culture. The third one is management. What’s the fourth pillar that helps me make sure I have sustainable revenue growth?
Jackson: The fourth pillar is marketing.
Nicole: Okay. All right. So I love marketing. Has anybody ever listened to the I Love Marketing podcast? Write that down. Don’t leave now from listening to this podcast, but go to that podcast next. I Love Marketing podcast. Alright, love these guys over there. They are just genius. Alright, so let’s talk about marketing. It’s all about having a brand and a message and consistency. What else?
Jackson: How you market is fairly all encompassing, in regards to getting your message out there, and sales and fulfillment and, and support and all that. But it’s one of those things where marketing, if you have, you can have strong marketing, prior to having great fulfillment. In fact, you’re in a better position if you do. Unfortunately, when it comes.
Nicole: Wait, say that again. I missed it.
Jackson: You need your marketing, great marketing can precede fulfillment. So look at any Kickstarter project, as an example to that. You know, these, these are crowdfunded projects that don’t exist yet. But they marketed their service very, very well, that helps them raise the capital they need. And then from there, we hope that they deliver on what it is that they built out. A phenomenal example of that my favorite example of that is Tesla. So here’s Elon Musk, and he’s got this, this Tesla 3 coming out, you know. And he’s presenting it on stage. And as I watched that presentation years ago, 180,000 people purchased a car, okay.
These are 180,000 people who have great credit, by the way, these are not people who were swindled easily, you know, and so they buy this, this car, that they’re not going to get for two to three years, they put $1,000 down. That is absurd. That is like the definition of a scam. That is what puts people in jail is when you do things like that unless you fulfill. But again, the fulfillment didn’t come first. The marketing came first the visionary, explaining what was going to happen, came first. He had to get people interested in that. And that funding was was definitely pivotal, to make sure that he had the capital to be able to fulfill and build something, you know, so exquisite and so phenomenal.
So marketing is the next pillar, the best pill unfortunately rarely wins, right? And so what I mean by that is, if we had the cure for cancer, if it’s poorly marketed, it’s not going to win. The pill that actually gets marketing behind it is going to be the one that wins. So you can’t, you can’t hide what it is that you have of value. So Nicole, have you seen instances where marketing has either pushed something forward prematurely and failed? Or marketing has helped something move forward that you can use in your life?
Nicole: Yeah, well, I’ll tell you the story. I always tell people and it’s a pretty iconic so I don’t know. But I love the video, long time ago where Steve Jobs comes out. He’s got his, you know, his black turtleneck, his dark jeans on, his black tennis shoes, and he puts his hand on his pocket, his front pocket and he pats it and he says, I got 1000 songs in my pocket. That is the iconic, most amazing line right there. Because Nicole Greer’s playlist is like over 1000 songs long, right? I mean, I’ve been on the planet a long time. So I’ve got everything from like, you know, 1970 forward. There’s a lot of songs I need in my pocket. And I used to have a Walkman. Now, for those of you who are under 20 or under 30 maybe, you need to go look up Walkman.
It was a cassette player. It’s a thing. And so I used to have one as a kid, I drove my bicycle everywhere went to work and everything. And I always had my little Walkman on, and I think that was pretty unsafe. So I went in with the CD player in it. But see, here’s the problem, you can only put about 15 songs in your pocket. And you can’t carry about just CDs everywhere you go. Although we tried. We put them in little circle things. And they had you had a clip and it was ridiculous. But anyway, so I mean, like that. That’s the thing. So he tells me I can put 1000 songs in my pocket I’m in. So I was early adapter. I got the little what was it the Nano iPod? Nano am I right? I bought it immediately. So is that what you’re looking for that kind of idea?
Jackson: Absolutely. Yeah, it’s a great example. You know, and it was it was developed hand in hand, right? You’re not developing these aspects of business, you know, in a box, like you know, in a vacuum, as you’d say, in science. So you’re not just developing one at a time but it’s important to recognize that you got to get yourself out there. You know, you need to you need to understand how marketing works in order to benefit from it. Typically, it’s it’s all about that philosophy of being a wise steward. You know, it’s it’s hard to do marketing correctly if you never want to learn it. So how do you find a resource that makes you want to learn it? Or teaches you a way that you can market without sacrificing your ethics? You know, there’s it’s a, it’s a polarizing subject, but it is an incredibly important one for anybody’s growth.
Nicole: Yeah. Oh, I have another one that’s popped in my head. I just want to share this only because I want listeners to please email or call me immediately if they find out the location of these products. So my daughter sent me this post she saw on Facebook that apparently Little Debbie, do you do little Debbie’s in Texas? Is little Debbie’s a thing? Like oatmeal cakes, Swiss cake rolls? Okay. All right. So um, okay, so if you love a Swiss cake roll, say that’s me. You love an oatmeal pie. Say that’s me.
Okay, so this house was raised. It’s sad. I gave my children sugar, but they’re all good and graduated from college. So it’s all good. So anyway, so apparently, there’s going to be little Debbie’s ice cream. And we can’t find it anywhere. Right? We’re googling it. They say it’s gonna be at the Walmart, we go to the Walmart, we skip right past the produce, unfortunately, and go directly to the ice cream aisle. No Swiss cake roll ice cream. So if anybody has a clue on that, if you please reach out to the vibrant coach Nicole@vibrantcoaching, I’d be really, really grateful.
Jackson: Guilty pleasure. They got these not the Nutter Butters. Yeah. chocolate coated now at Sam’s Club. Yeah.
Nicole: That’s the deal?
Jackson: Definitely.
Nicole: It’s yeah, but I mean, looks like they’ve marketed but I can’t find the product. So it’s maybe it’s the two three year Tesla thing? I don’t know. I’m all ready for it, though. If it comes out. Okay. So marketing is pillar four. Yeah. So is that part of what you help people with is the marketing piece? Tell me how you help people with the marketing piece?
Jackson: Yeah, that’s a huge piece. So we’re actually in the process of launching the final stages of our power launch. And like the little Debbie’s ice cream, it’s in, it’s in high demand. And we’re very, very careful about who we bring on. So we’re bringing on four clients at a smaller level for the power launch. We’re bringing on only two at the larger level. And what it is, is it we’re building the entire marketing bridge, when the entities that come on, there’s literally 40 onboarding documents that have to be filled out. So not four questions, not 40 questions, 40 documents that have to be filled out for us to do this.
And this process goes from research and development, it’s a $2,000 research and development project upfront. Facebook ads, YouTube ads, the landing page, testimonials and case studies built out. Testing on Facebook ads, YouTube ads, the I think it says the social media management for your page, third party social media endorsements as well of your brand being tagged by our brand about what we love and like about you, in addition to a full PR and media launch. And pulling all of those together so that people can actually cross the bridge is really the key to the system.
There’s too many people who think that Facebook is the bridge between them and their customers. Facebook’s not the bridge, Facebook is a pillar. Okay. So what happens is a lot of business owners, they blame Facebook, they say all boosted posts didn’t work. So Facebook doesn’t work. And what they don’t realize is they built a very beautiful pillar in the middle of the ocean. But nobody can cross, you know, they can see the pillar. But how do you get somebody from Facebook to your offer? Well, that’s where the landing page comes in.
That’s where your email automation sequence comes in. That’s where your calendar has to be set up appropriately. All of these little things have to come together in order for people to cross successfully. And if you don’t pull it all together, again, you got a bunch of great looking pillars and pieces. But your puzzles not, it’s not built in a way where people can actually move forward.
Nicole: Sounds great. So you’re helping people build a bridge between the pillars. Okay, fantastic. All right. So sounds like there’s limited, limited time only offer on that deal.
Jackson: For now.
Nicole: For now. So here’s what you gotta do. You gotta email Jackson@firstclassbusiness.io. That’s what you got to do. Alright, so what’s the sixth pillar in the sustainable revenue growth formula?
Jackson: Fulfilment. Fulfillment is huge. Absolutely. So when it comes to fulfillment, if you’re not taking great care of your customers, you’re not going to get the type of momentum that you need to win, or your business is going to collapse in on itself. So you do have to be ready for those customers to come on board. Which is why like in my case, we’re limiting the amount of people who are joining the power launch program. So power launch is tested by ourselves and we build out systems that are called prototypes. If I could save you years in your business, read the book, the E Myth by Michael Gerber get the audio.
Nicole: I’m a Gerber baby.
Jackson: Oh, smart lady. Absolutely. So that book will save you years and hassle. It’s the only business book I regret not reading the moment that it came across my desk. So since listen to it, it’s phenomenal. And you got to build your prototypes out so that you know what the people are supposed to do in your business. And you’re not just like delegating to people without teaching them what to do. It also keeps you from having to micromanage. And then beyond that, the fulfillment process is very different for every business out there.
Chiropractor is going to have a different fulfillment process than a restaurant would. A restaurant is going to have a different filament process than a digital marketer would. Some of them are super complex systems. Some of them have client involvement in them. But you got to start mapping that out and organizing that. At the end of the day, you should be aiming for what’s called success in the micro moments of truth. So the moments of truth are a system developed decades ago.
And the moments of truth, now have a new moment called the zero moment of truth. I would just YouTube that. I’m going to leave it right there. I’ll let you YouTube that. But ultimately, if you win the third moment of truth, your business is going to achieve loyal raving fans. And that ultimately allows people to start talking about your brand and saying how amazing you are. Nicole, have you ever heard of the moments of truth before?
Nicole: No. But I wrote them all down. I heard the micro movement of truth, the zero moment of truth. And the third movement of truth is?
Jackson: So the micro moments of truth is talked about a lot on a on a Twitter account called Think with Google. It’s Google basically trying to teach businesses how to do well with marketing. The zero moment, the first moment, second, and third. Those are the those are the main pillars. I’ll go through them real fast. All right.
Nicole: Don’t leave it laying there. We’re all curious. Teach us, teach us.
Jackson: So the first moment of truth is when you go to, let’s use a cereal box, just like you’ll see on the YouTube video. When you go to that cereal aisle and you’re looking you decide which box you want to buy. That’s the first moment of truth. So the one who wins that, is the one that has the best style or design. Then you go home, and you open that cereal up and you try it. And that’s the second moment of truth. When I’m trying this product and service, do I do I like the experience, right? If you win that, then comes the third moment of truth, that I liked that cereal so much that I decided to share it with others. That’s winning the third moment of truth, I have to like it so much that I have to tell other people about it.
Alright, the zero moment of truth is something that’s brand new, it came out because of the internet. So previously, you’d hear a radio ad about a box of cereal or see it on TV, you go to the grocery store, and you you’d find it and then you try it. Well now, that’s not how it works. When Tim Duncan of the San Antonio Spurs retired, a cereal came out, you know, really like, acknowledging his, his retirement, the Duncan Os they call them. And before people you know people hear about it on the radio, then they’d see all the social posts about it. And those social posts are the zero moment of truth that didn’t exist before the internet came around.
And so rather than going to the store and deciding which one we’re going to buy, we’re actually already influenced by all of our friends and family who’ve told us about it before we even got there. So it’s like an extra level of stimulus, Google coined it as the zero moment of truth. Since then, marketers have been building around it. If you’re in the vacation space, right, you’ve got a hotel, or a RV rental company, then you have a ton of influence to make prior to that person ever coming to your lot to rent that RV. You’ve got to get out there on Twitter, and on Facebook and elsewhere in order to influence those people’s decisions to buy because they’re going to do 400 plus data points of research online before they take that trip.
And if you’re not part of those points, it can be hard to make an influence. Again, every every industry is very different in how many points you need to make, how many connections you need to make. The the level of influence you need to make can be very, very overwhelming. And that’s where, again, I would say First Class Business comes in. I don’t want to overwhelm people, I want to take the overwhelm off your shoulders, so you don’t need to get caught up in the hype of that. It’s just fun for me, I get passionate about it, because that stuff’s really fun to learn about, from my perspective.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so everybody, we gotta go and google up Think with Google is the Twitter website, we need to go follow. And then we got to go on YouTube. And we got to look up moments of truth video, watch that. And you need to get the E Myth. All right. So you just got like three goodies in your toolbox. And everybody say, thank you, Jackson. All right. There we go. That’s fantastic. All right. And I just want to say something about fulfillment just in case there’s somebody listening, they’re like I still don’t understand, what? So if you promise something, in terms of a product or service, you have to deliver and that’s fulfillment, right? So you got to deliver on your promises, right? You can’t over promise, under deliver all that stuff.
So I think fulfillment if you’re not working in a warehouse, it may not be the word or whatever, but I think it’s really important. So if somebody signs up for business coaching which Jackson and, and he says, well, I’m really not sure how P&L works, but I think you should try to make more money. That’s not going to do the trick. That’s not fulfillment. He’s got to give them the eight pillars. And he’s got to explain the eight pillars. And he’s got to deliver on the eight pillars. When he does that. He’s fulfilled his promise. So I think fulfillment is really huge. And here’s the thing about the word fulfillment. So when I went through my coach training, Jackson, they talked about how many, many people are unfulfilled wandering around planet Earth? Do you think that’s true, that most people are unfulfilled?
Jackson: Yeah, absolutely. I, I’ve served a mission for two years, I’m helping people in Uruguay find, you know, find their their place in this world, and our case, find God, but mostly, it was just figuring out how to belong and love themselves. And so every day when I talked to people, yeah, I met, I met serious cases of people who, case after case, of people who felt lost and hopeless.
Nicole: Yeah. And, and so to deliver fulfillment to somebody. I mean, it’s almost what Jackson just said, it can be spiritual. It’s like, when I sit down, and I coach somebody, and they walk away, and they think that was helpful. They just got filled up. I mean, and if you think what’s, what’s wrong on this planet, it’s a bunch of empty people walking around, they all need to get filled up. And if we were all filled up and vibrant, man, we’d be rockin and rollin this thing. So fulfillment is, it doesn’t sound so great, but it is really the linchpin in my, in my book. All right. I can’t believe it. We only have one left. Are you kidding? Okay, what’s number number eight in your sustainable revenue growth formula?
Jackson: Oh, funny. Well, we got a little lost in that. But I would say so vision, culture, management, marketing, fulfillment. The last three are operations, sales and support.
Nicole: Oh, wait, hold on.
Jackson: We’ve talked about some great things in there. So and at the end of the day, Nicole, at the end of the day, you’re right, like, it’s just an analogy, right? Is there more than seeing in business that there’s synonyms that come into play? Yes, of course, it’s just to simplify what areas you can think through but operations, sales and support. You know, this, these pillars, while they’re going to be fantastic to have equal, they also kind of work like stairs, you know. And stair steps. And you can build with reverse order. Okay, you don’t have to get lost on the examples. But the reason why I did put sales towards the end, you’ll notice, which is so oh, why would why would he do that? You know, we need sales or support.
And on the very end, like, why would support be the last thing if you really care about people. Because if your fulfillment and your operations is great, you don’t need support. You only need support when things are fracturing. You only need support when you haven’t done super well to make sure that people’s experience is great. So that is ultimately the last component is you know, if your sales if you’re selling things ethically, right, and you’re building out great quality products and services, and you’ve marketed it, well, then you don’t need a whole lot of support on it.
Nicole: Yeah, I would agree. I got a story to talk about that one. So do you know this this famous store called Neiman Marcus?
Jackson: Oh, yeah. Last call is my favorite.
Nicole: Texas, Texas it’s a Texas thing. I’m just saying.
Jackson: I didn’t know that.
Nicole: Oh, yeah. Okay, so it’s very bougie everybody. And so when I was when I was.
Jackson: What does that mean? What’s bougie?
Nicole: Fancy luxury. You know, you got to pay top dollar, that kind of thing, right? So, my, when I was growing up, my dad was in retail. And so he would get all of these catalogs. Okay, and this is the old days before internet. And so the only way you could see what they had available at stores was to go through these catalogs. Well, I can remember looking through the Neiman Marcus catalog as a very young girl thinking, oh, that dress is $1,200. That’s crazy, you know. I would just look at that. So I’ve always thought of Neiman Marcus as just like the ultimate of everything right?
Well, I have this one particular eyeshadow. I know you can’t relate Jackson. But I have this one particular eyeshadow that I love. And so I could not get it on Amazon, which is my go to because of ease, convenience. Talk about fulfillment, right? It’s on my doorstep today. But anyway, so I could not get it through Amazon blah, blah, blah. I was like, well what in the world? So I put my assistant on it which is that a good use of my resources? Not sure. Anyway, so I said I should probably not be Googling for eyeshadow. I’ll make her do it.
So anyway, so my assistant Caitlyn, she’s Googling for eyeshadow and she finds it at the Neiman Marcus and it has been 90 days and I still have no eyeshadow. I just keep getting these these things that say nothing’s coming. Now I don’t know if it’s because of all this you know, what is it supply chain blah, blah, blah. But I’m like I think I would have sent Nicole some other eyeshadow in replacement in the interim. You know what I’m saying? Or something, but all I get is it’s delayed, it’s delayed, it’s delayed, and I’ve been absolutely blown away. So there’s no support. There’s no sales.
Jackson: That sounds like something that Nordstrom would do. By the way, I’m not now you never know which sales rep you’re gonna get a person you’re gonna get at the company. But my, my area sales manager at Lifetime Fitness shared a story where he had bought some some Cole Haan shoes. And I think he bought him from Dillards or somewhere. And they just they didn’t fit or didn’t work out. And he tried to return them and they wouldn’t.
And he was at Nordstrom checking out new shoes and was going to buy and he was carrying the box and the rep asked him, you know why he was looking for new shoes, if he already have the box or something similar. And they decided to take his shoes for him and replace them, even though he purchased them at a completely different department store. And so he is now a Nordstrom guy forever, because of that experience, so.
Nicole: Yeah, I’m gonna we have to go Jackson, this podcast needs to be over. I’m gonna go get some eyeshadow. Anyways, okay, no, I love your story. Yeah. And you know, I’ve heard many, many amazing stories about Nordstroms. I mean, we need to incorporate that case study in everything we do, don’t we? That’s fantastic. Okay, so operations was number six, I think. And then number seven was sales. Okay. So just talk about operations for a minute, because this is just how we’re going to run things. Right, or business model. Talk to me a little bit about operations.
Jackson: Yeah, it’s pretty encompassing, you know, your from profit and loss to making sure that your teams are working in harmony. You know, that’s a big key. My favorite book on the subject is The Five Dysfunctions of a Team by Peter Lencioni. Yeah, have you read that?
Nicole: Oh, my gosh, yes. And I’ve taught it. Yes. Fantastic stuff. Yeah. What I love about it, it enforces the Myers Briggs and I have the Myers Briggs in my toolbox, everybody. Anyway, go ahead.
Jackson: Good for you. No, that’s it. That’s, that’s a big one, you know, it’s, you know, how do you eat an elephant. It’s one bite at a time. And so wherever you’re at with all of these concepts, you know, eat one bite at a time, be grateful for who you are, be grateful for what you’ve accomplished, you know, enjoy this journey, you’re not going to get to the end and enjoy the end if you didn’t enjoy the process of getting there.
So wherever you are with operations, you know, look for leaders who can guide you to that next level. Look for people who you admire and say, wow, I really like and vibe with what Nicole is doing. So, you know, I’m going to ask her for advice and tips on this, that’s one of the best things you can do is just be humble enough to ask for those advice and tips. And that’s what earns the heart of most people who are willing to mentor you.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Yep. So we got to break down the silos, you got to get everybody working together on operations. Alright, so sales and support. So you said you, I put it at the end, but I just did sales training last Thursday and Friday with an organization and I was hesitant to go in and do sales training, because I’m gonna, I’m gonna endorse, you’re having this at the bottom of your list. Because if you don’t have all your ducks in a row, you like you said earlier.
If you go out and you blow it up with sales, you’re gonna have a fail, because you can’t handle all the things that are going to happen from having a great ad on Facebook or whatever, putting a mailer in the mail or wherever you’re going to do it. And there were a lot of key strategic things that need to be decided before the sales process can even begin including operations, right. So I think that’s huge. So, talk a little bit about what you think the key, the key to fabulous sales is. First of all, I think every organization needs to decide it’s a sales organization. What do you think about that theory?
Jackson: Love it. I love it. No, it’s so I take sales for granted a little bit. I mean, I’ve been selling my whole life. At three years old, I was, I heard my parents scream at each other in the room, I jumped in and push them apart and you know, stop fighting. You know, and I’ve been bold that type of individual my entire life. And so, talking, you know, I always, always tell my mom, like, why don’t we take cookies to the neighbors? You know, why don’t we do this that like, I’ve always loved to engage with people and and, you know, 16 years old pumping gas at the gas station, I’m talking to the dude, the next pump and just seeing how his life’s going. What’s he, what’s he up to?
I’ve always been interested in people, and that’s really served and helped me. I’ve been through training with Sal Sandler’s Institute, the Sandler Institute. I’ve been through training with, we hired a rep that was a senior rep at Oracle, which is one of the hardest sales teams to stay on. I’ve been through training of the blue, the blueprints, what’s that called the bank code training. And I’ve been through the sales mentor. Out of all of those programs, the best one, if you were to start right now, is the sales mentor by the guys over at traffic and traffic and funnels. Taylor Welch is a phenomenal leader. And that program cost $97.
I don’t get anything for this, by the way. But I did decide to take it two years ago. Just to see where I was at. It was that final bridge for me in terms of sales. I always knew I was good at helping people. But I wasn’t a closer. And I didn’t know how all the principles pulled together until I got into that program. And that program was like, oh, I do know how to do this. And their pillars are based on one, number one, the number one rule of sales is we do what’s best for those that we serve. How different is that than most sales philosophies you’ve ever heard of?
Nicole: Everybody needs it. Right?
Jackson: You got to, you got to care about those you’re serving, right. So if they don’t fit, you don’t sell them. You do what’s called a forced delay, or you become a guardian, and you push them along. I love that concept. Because the whole philosophy is built on the process of love. And that’s really what sales is all about is, if you love what you do, then you’ve got to be bold enough to talk about it with people who need it, and you got to recognize who needs it and who doesn’t. And ultimately serve those who who do need it, who need it, who want it and who are willing to move forward. But then there’s that that reality that people are scared to go outside of their comfort zone. Right. So that’s number two, is you got to get people out of their comfort zone. Number three is people will fight tooth and nail to stay in their comfort zone.
Nicole: So sad.
Jackson: It’s so hard to do. But again, if you’ve got great marketing, and that’s that’s another big thing I love about the program. So to save you the $97. My favorite thing about it is they teach you that you have to recognize when an entity is ready for sales. So they’ve got 20,000 sales students that want jobs. And they give them a seven step checklist to recognize the companies that are in a position to be sold.
And so if your company doesn’t have the branding, and you don’t have the product outlined, you don’t have the service and you you don’t have a track record of all those things in place, and you don’t have the right culture aspects they teach you do not take the job. Don’t go work for that entity, because you will not sell well for an entity that needs a hero to come in and save the brand. Nicole, I know you got a ton of wisdom on this though. I gotta hear it.
Nicole: I know I love what you’re saying. And well, I’m just was a little stunned by your statement that you said sales is all about love. If people could understand that. Holy man, that’s just, that’s just everything. Yeah. So this this thing about, you know, I’m not a salesperson. Like the salespeople are evil or something. But really, they are there to love you. I mean, and yes, there are snake oil salesmen out there, whatever. I mean, that’s going to be a thing that was a thing when, you know, right after Adam and Eve popped out in the garden all the way to today. That’s all been going on for like millennial.
But the thing is, is that, you know, typically, when people are trying to sell you something they are trying to share about the product, give you the features and benefits help you discern what you need, what you don’t need. Now, people are always going to try to upsell you, but it’s not because, it’s because they love you. I’ll give you just yesterday I bought, I broke down I had I had a jealous moment. Two weeks ago in a meeting, this woman had an iPad, and she was writing with a pen on in on a she uploaded the document we were looking at was writing on it with a pen on her thing and saving it. No paper was involved. I was like, I want that. And so I was all jealous. So yesterday broke down and bought the iPad.
So as I’m buying the iPads talk about loving me. Now you could think it’s like, it’s it’s bad. But like the Apple people said, okay, if you’re gonna buy this iPad, do you want to have this protective cover for it? Because that’ll keep your iPad safe. It doesn’t come with a pen. You want the pen? The pen is 100 bucks. Okay, well, yes, of course I want that pen. Do you want the little magical keyboard? So it turns into a real life computer when you bring it back to your office? Well, yeah, you want that too.
Okay. So before you know it, I had an extra, I don’t know, $400, $500 of stuff. But now I’m going to be happy when it comes to that house, you know, versus is coming to the house, I didn’t get the pen. I didn’t do whatever. Now they could have just said, oh, we got her for the money for the iPad, let’s stop. But they loved me enough to say you should really consider all this other mess.
Jackson: And so I love, I love this. Because you’re also talking about you’re also talking about a brand where you’re kind of you’re safely sold. Right? And that’s the other key on this. Yeah, well, sales should be about love. But you also have to be careful because there’s a context on that. Right? If you’re working with a startup that needs your business, they might sell you for the wrong reasons. You know, if you’re working with like another example that my wife and I went and we handed out Thanksgiving dinners on Thanksgiving to homeless people, right?
And there’s this young man who we came across and and you know, you’re trying to make decisions fast because you’re you’re handing the food out of your car, you don’t know who you’re dealing with. And sometimes those people have ulterior motives too. Well, he wants to sell me this purse. You know, it’s like a brand new purse Gucci or something or whatever. You know, and I was like, no, like, you know, like, and I gave him the Thanksgiving dinner and we moved on, I started thinking about I was like, oh my gosh, where did that kid get that purse? You know, probably stole it from somebody, you know? And, and so while he’s trying to do us a favor, you know, there’s there’s an ethical aspect to it as well, the point he’s not bad kid, you know, did you do bad things?
Probably, he probably did a bad thing to get that purse. And was he trying to sell me the person, you know, to my wife to change our lives or make our life any better? No, he’s just trying to survive for heaven’s sake, you know, he’s just trying to get some money to do whatever he feels he needs to do for his life in that moment. So not everybody does serve because or sell because of their selling out of love. But it is really helpful to start looking at the salesperson in front of you and thinking, is this person doing this? Because they want me to win? And they want me to succeed? Or is this completely based on their own desires and needs?
Nicole: Right. 100%? Well, you know, you this whole handbag thing has made reeling over here. You just triggered an old old memory. So talking about so when my daughter was like in sixth grade, we went on this trip to New York City, and these mothers were allowed to go along as chaperones. And so one of the things that they talked the bus driver into was going, I don’t even know what it was called going to, I think it was Chinatown. And going to the places that had the purse, knockoffs. Do you know what I’m talking about?
Jackson: Yeah, I bought a Spurs shirt once like that.
Nicole: Okay, so the women were going to go to this thing, and I and I, and I was an entrepreneur, and I’m like, I’m not buying this stuff. First of all, it’s not real. And number two, I’m not gonna buy it. Reason why is because when I have stuff I don’t want somebody did knock me off. I don’t want bad juju, bad karma, bad, bad blessings, I don’t want God to smite me, whatever. But I mean, that’s when it made me really, when you think about business, it’s really, it is a big ethical situation. And I feel.
Jackson: Can I blow your mind?
Nicole: Please.
Jackson: I want to I’m so excited for you Nicole. There’s a TED talk on this subject. And it will blow your mind about why you want your stuff to be knocked off. Why it is a huge victory for your brand, and how it compares the, the clothing industry, with the media industry, and how the media industry is not growing. And it is suffering tremendously because of the amount of copyright infringement problems and laws and all that. Whereas the fashion industry is exploding. It’s really it’s a really powerful TED Talk. It’s really cool.
Nicole: Okay, but I’m not gonna, I’m pretty sure it’s not ethical to buy a fake Gucci in anyway. All right. But anyway, so I just, here’s the thing, here’s the thing, everybody, let’s let’s boil it down to this. So we’re gonna go we’re gonna go spiritual on it for a minute. My, my listeners are so Jackson, so don’t worry. So. So here, here’s the thing. I learned this concept from a this guy who’s called himself a reformed Catholic. Okay, so he grew up in the Catholic Church, and and, you know, he had the nuns with the rulers, and, you know, all that, and, you know, it’s like, but it’s something inside of him was like, you know, God is real, you know.
And he said, you know, when the, when the nun would teach him, he would say, you know, when you’ve done something, and you know that you’ve done something really, really well. Or that you’ve loved something or love someone, you will have a sense come over you. This stuff almost made me cry, of consolation. Like, it will feel good. You’ll be like, oh, warm, fuzzy, right? Yeah. And the nun says, that is God telling you’re doing the right thing. So I was like, oh, wow, I’ve had that before. But then the opposite. Opposite is desolation, which is a big fat word for a young person going through catechism.
So he said, so you know how you do something, and you’re like, feel crappy the whole rest of the day, and you’re like, oh, I shouldn’t have done that. Or that wasn’t the right thing to do. Or you’re with a snake oil salesman, and you’re like, that felt bad. That’s desolation. So when you have that feeling of like, oh, pay attention. Because that’s just that’s the spirit telling you this is no good. So I think if we’re gonna talk about sales, I mean, it is love if you feel love. And if it’s feeling ichy, then that is the wrong decision. That’s the wrong you know, and that’s the thing is, you know, have some discernment in the process. I don’t know where that one came from.
Jackson: I love it. I love it. Nicole, it’s important to me, the first thing I talk to my entrepreneurs about, one of the first things, once the space is created. I always try to share the story that if I were on CNN, they would ask me, what’s my greatest success secret? I would say it’s one of two things, depending on your semantics, your background. Some people call it meditation. Some people call it prayer. Right, right. And it’s the same thing, though.
You know, when you when you want to know how to get your own answers, you know, my visionaries need to know how to get their own answers. They don’t need me as their guide. They need to be their own guide, and pay attention to how they learn both in their heart and in their mind, and how they get those two things to align for their best answers. They’ll always know the best answer for their ventures.
Nicole: That is absolutely true. Awesome. All right. Well, we have worked through the eight pillars of sustainable revenue growth. So will you say them, so I know I have them written down correctly. So I’m gonna keep track. On your mark, get set, go. The first one was.
Jackson: Vision, culture, management, marketing, fulfillment, operations, sales and support.
Nicole: Okay, fantastic. All right. Well, listen, I think Jackson could help you get your P&L all shipshape. That’s the profit and loss statement people. But he could get it all shipshape, and he could help you with your CRO, your conversion rate optimization. He can tell you his list of books to read today. I’ve got two on the list, the E Myth and The Five Dysfunctions of a Team. If that’s not already on your audible, could you please get that done today? Please, ASAP.
Also, he told you to go to Twitter and look up Think with Google. Follow that and check in on the daily. Also he shared with you that you need to go and you need to Google up on the YouTube zero moment of truth. And his bonus thing is he told us that we need to maybe check out the sales mentor as a little sales trainer. So this was chock full of good information. You are a fabulous guest.
Jackson: Thank you, Nicole. You’re a fabulous host and thank you for the gift. You’re incredible look at you. Oh, I’m a fan for life.
Nicole: Oh, good. I hope that I hope that little sticker stays on. We’re working on the sticker.
Jackson: I was wondering. I was careful when I washed it.
Nicole: That’s right. Okay. So it’s been great to be with you tell everybody Jackson, how they can get up with you and where they can find you if they want to reach out and get more team news from you.
Jackson: Absolutely. Feel free to email me Jackson j a c k s o n @firstclassbusiness.io You can follow us on Facebook. But really just the personal one on one reach out is the best route. For sure.
Nicole: Okay. All right. So you got a personal invitation right into the inbox, and he’ll call you. All right. It’s been great to be with you Jackson on the Build a Vibrant Culture, podcast. So great to have you and I wish you all the best.
Jackson: Likewise, Nicole, it’s been my pleasure.
Voiceover: Ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her strategies, systems and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email Nicole@nicolegreer.com. And be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at nicolegreer.com.
