What does storytelling have to do with leadership?
The best leaders understand the power of narrative…
If you can make your team feel like they’re on a hero’s journey…
Just like the epic quests you see in movies…
They’ll follow you wherever you want to go.
Paul Glover is a performance coach and former federal court trial attorney who believes in the power of narrative to influence and educate.
In this episode, he’ll discuss:
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Taking your followers on a hero’s journey
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Connecting with your team on a personal level
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The 3 essential traits of a leader
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The difference between goals and purpose
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Why leaders can’t ignore self-care
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And more
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Paul Glover: If you can’t connect on both a professional and personal level, you cannot lead today. Because people, your team demand personal. They want you to know who they are and they want to know who you are.
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast with professional speaker, coach and consultant Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer, and they call me the vibrant coach. I’m here today with none other than the amazing Paul Glover. He is a C-Suite Performance Coach with 20 years experience as a federal court trial lawyer, passionate storyteller who believes in the power of the narrative to influence and educate in business, personal life and even in courtrooms. He’s a member of the Forbes Council and the author of WorkQuake. Hold it up again for us, Paul, hold it up again for us. There it is. Okay. All right. And it is a playbook for leaders who want to navigate the future of work being on traditional command and control models to a more inclusive, engaging environment. Please welcome to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast, Paul Glover. Hi, Paul.
Paul: Hi, Nicole, thank you so very much for the opportunity to speak to you and your audience.
Nicole: Oh of course, of course. We love to have, you know, a performance coach in the house, that’s for sure. Tell me right out of the gate. I’m collecting definitions. What is your definition of leadership?
Paul: Well, I believe that every leader needs to be taking their team, their organization, and themselves on a hero’s journey. I think that that leadership is defined by the ability to get other people to join you on your journey towards a destination, whether that be your vision, or just being the end. And I think that that’s done through the concept of a hero’s journey. People respond to being asked to participate in something meaningful with purpose. And a hero’s journey always has that as a purpose. Otherwise, it wouldn’t be a hero’s journey. So I think that that’s the definition of leadership is first have that hero’s journey, and then and then persuade others that it’s to their benefit, to join you. Not to work for you but to work with you to achieve the outcome of the journey. And to me, that’s, that’s what leadership should be about.
Nicole: Oh, that’s fantastic. And I totally agree. And I think everybody should write down what Paul just said, he didn’t say, I want you to work for me. I want you to work with me. I love love, love that little nuance. That’s fantastic. Yeah. Because hello, we’re all in this together, we gotta get going there. Now when you say the hero’s journey, I’m kind of go getting a flashback to literature class, you know, to English class. Are you referring to the hero’s journey that is the classic narrative, you know, steps that you go through? Is that what you’re referring to?
Paul: Absolutely. And I also understand it. The reason that I look at it as a hero’s journey is that it can’t be a hero’s journey without adversity. Otherwise, Red Riding Hood is only a walk in the woods without the wolf. So the concept of the hero’s journey is, we are going to have obstacles and barriers and adversity that we must overcome as a team. And that’s the definition of being a hero is, without the adversity, you can’t be the hero, it just doesn’t exist. The situation doesn’t. And when you make your team, however large, that team is a part of being the hero. Because the leader is not the only hero. Everyone on the journey is the hero, and it becomes their journey. And therefore they commit. People will commit to something that they see as worthwhile and with purpose. And also, as much as people go away from challenges. It’s amazing how often they enjoy the challenge once it’s in front of them.
Nicole: Yeah, I bet you you’re like me, Paul, I bore easy. I mean, what is life without a challenge? I mean, like, let’s get up, let’s make something happen. Looks let’s look for something to, you know, turn into something that never existed before or whatever. Yeah, I’m with you 100 percent. Now, quickly, I want to talk about your history. At some point, I think I read on your website that you’re a recovering attorney. So tell me, tell me a little bit about how you were drawn to law and then how now your practice of you know, all those years of practicing law, how does that help you in your coaching? You know, and kind of you tie that all together for me. I think it’s probably going to be a really good story.
Paul: Well, at first I was a trial lawyer doing employment and labor law and I tell people, If I had to do wills and trusts I would have cut my throat with a rusty spoon. Being a trial lawyer is being a adrenaline junkie. And also, as I tell people, it is the the modern opportunity to engage in hand to hand combat with a worthy adversary, and you have a referee, the judge. And so that’s what appealed to me, plus the opportunity to tell the story to the jury. Because the concept of that hero’s journey did not come to me as a coach, it came to me as a advocate for my clients, because most good attorneys seldom want to put their client on the stand.
So what you become as, as their attorney is you become their, their avatar, and you stand in front of the jury, and it’s your job to persuade them. And I came to the resolution very quickly that the way I was going to win a case was to show my client as the hero and ask that jury to come with me, as I relate to the journey that he was on or she was on that led them to the courtroom. And so that’s how it that’s how the concept came to me. And it worked very well. I believe that leadership requires persuasive storytelling.
Nicole: Absolutely.
Paul: And you absolutely, you do a narrative that draws your audience, whoever they may be into the story. And that’s how I that’s how I did trial work. And I was very successful at it. And, and I took this skill set of two skill sets. First, you cannot, you cannot be a hero without empathy, and authenticity, and vulnerability. And those are the things that we all know the words anymore. I mean, we’ve gotten around at least saying that we have the vocabulary. The problem is we actually as leaders have to put this into a reality, we actually have to do it, not just say it. And so as I look at the hero’s journey, all of those things are part of what makes a hero a hero. The hero will always have faults.
You can’t have a say, you know, we talked about superhero, even even Superman has kryptonite. And so so we look at it and we go, even if you’re the hero, you still have faults. Instead of running away from your faults, acknowledging them as part of who you are, that’s authenticity. That’s vulnerability. Share them, so that the people who you’re inviting along on the journey, feel that they’re capable of being on that journey, because they’re humans also. You’ve got to be a human, they’ve got to be a human. And so I looked at that. And I said, as I look at leadership, outside the courtroom, I don’t see that, I see the opposite. I see people, leaders who believe they have to be infallible.
I have leader, I see leaders that locked themselves in the corner office, and they don’t engage. And by the way, I think that a principle of leadership is you have to be present. And so many leaders run away from that, because they don’t want to have the discussion about what the real purpose is. And are we achieving our purpose. We don’t want to talk about our failures. I think leaders have to reframe failure, because it is, by the way, I love the yin and the yang, the yin and the yang, because I truly believe that that’s our life. Half of our life is about having failure, and recovering from failure.
And if you say, well, I’m not going to talk about that, I’m not going to make that a part of the story. People don’t believe you, unless, they just don’t believe you. That’s not being authentic, not be vulnerable. So so my contention was, if I wanted to be a coach, this was how I was going to coach for those people who decided they did not want to be the stereotypical leader. And the concept of that, to me is, we were all taught just because I went through the process to be professional. The problem was, we weren’t taught to be personal. And that’s unacceptable. If you can’t connect on both a professional and personal level, you cannot lead today.
Because people your team demand personal. They want you to know who they are and they want to know who you are. That’s a relationship, not a transaction. And that’s where you suddenly have what I think is the secret sauce. I can pay for effort. I can’t pay for discretionary effort. I have to earn that through our relationship. And really and discretionary effort is the secret sauce that takes companies to the next level. So I’ll pay for your time, but I have to earn your effort. And I will get that discretionary effort because I’m going to develop a relationship with you that matters.
Nicole: That’s fantastic. All right. So I took a lot of notes during that little epilogue he gave me I thought it was fantastic. And I had this little habit, Paul is I like to point out what I think is really genius. Because you know, sometimes people are on their treadmill or whatever they’re doing, while they’re listening to these things. But I love this, you said one of the key principles of leadership is engagement and presence. So, you know, I want to encourage you listeners out there, you need to have like a little notebook while you’re listening to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast, you know, have one page that says principles. And when, you know, people like Paul Glover, show up and give you a principle, put it on the principle list. The other thing that I thought was really great that you said, there’s three essential character traits, and I’m all about leaders working on the quality of their character.
And like, you know, Paul, some leaders are delusional, they think they’re like, totally in integrity all of the time. And it’s like, no, you’re not, I mean, we’re all weak. We all have weaknesses, like you said, faults. And so here are three, that Paul is just ripping on over and over again. So he thinks this is important, everybody, authenticity, vulnerability, and empathy. So I just, I just love those things right there. So thank you so much for that. Well, everybody wants to know, what is the hero’s journey? Now, what I’m familiar with is Joseph Campbell’s kind of model for the hero’s journey. Could you explain to us kind of that framework? Could you do that for us?
Paul: The concept is first there, it has to be meaningful, right. So if the only thing that you have to offer someone to join you on a journey is profit, nobody cares about that. They care about getting their paycheck, but that does not create a meaningful vision or a purpose. So you have to have a purpose, you also have to be able to explain the purpose, right? Communication is interesting to me, I think that that’s, we start off with a couple of things here, first trust. If you don’t trust people to do their part on the journey, then I have no idea how you think you’re going to get there, it won’t work. But the reality of trust is building relationships based off of communication.
And most leaders believe they’re fantastic communicators, because they believe in telepathy. And so they think that they think it, you know what it is. And so the coaching program and that I think everybody, every coach should start with this is, let’s examine your ability to actually communicate, so human beings, not dogs are hearing what you have to say. Because if you can’t communicate the vision or the purpose, nobody’s gonna go with you. Why would they. You’re a mystery. And what do they say. There’s that song, a mystery without any clues. And so I don’t want you to be a mystery, I think that you have to be as visible about the purpose, and why.
Simon Sinek and his why, I think, was marvelous. We need to know the why. Once I’ve got those things then I can recruit you, and I want to recruit you, and I want to make sure that everybody understands not everyone is going to be on the journey. You are not the Marine Corps, it’s okay to leave someone behind. And if someone is not suited for the journey, doesn’t want to commit to the journey, then you need to let them go, rather than try to hang on to them. So you have to first be able to recruit. This is a and by the way, I also I also believe in legacy. So legacy is not about tomorrow, it’s about five years from now, it’s about 10 years from now. So when we start talking about purpose, we’re not talking about short term, because goals are short term, purpose is long term.
And therefore people have to commit for the for the journey. The commitment requires them going above and beyond whenever called upon. Because that’s when we need to, that’s when we realize commitment. When you do more than you’re supposed to because you feel it’s necessary, moving us towards our purpose. So it’s a it’s a recruitment, then it’s a relationship builder. And I hate the fact that most organizations have internal barriers to performance. They can be just about anything, but every one of them takes autonomy away from a person who should be allowed to make the decision. And every time you put one of those internal barriers in you’re telling that person, I don’t trust you to make the decision.
And if we don’t have that level of trust, then the journey becomes too arduous for most people, and they decide not to stay on the journey. Why would I stay with someone who doesn’t trust me? So the concept of developing trust is once again, it’s about developing relationship. So a couple of things that have to go into this creating this journey. First, you have to be an empathetic listener. And I know that I’ve, one time I did lots of workshops, and we always talked about active listening. No, that’s not good enough anymore. You have to be an empathetic listener. And what that requires that you also have to be as perpetually curious.
You better be asking the questions that allow you the opportunity to connect personally with the people who you want on this journey. At every level. So again, I guess I’m giving elements. You have to be present, you have to be perpetually curious, you have to be an empathetic listener, then you have to do something with that information. Because you now collected it. And the interesting thing with 360 degree reviews, which I’m an advocate of is that after I give the information to the leader, most of the time, they’re like, well I don’t want to do that. Okay, now, let me make sure I understand this, the people that you wanted to respond to your question have done so.
And you now say, well, I don’t like to answer. All right, then you should not be the leader, or you need to get a different team. So so all of this is the mix of leadership that gives you the authority, as well as the responsibility to lead people on the journey. And those are the elements. And it depends on the individual who wants to lead by the way, being an extrovert being an introvert have nothing to do with leadership. It’s a skill set, you obviously have to be willing to do the necessary things that show your character. And if the character is not appropriate, people will not follow.
But if the character is and it attracts them, to you, they will. And I always find I’m too simple was this stuff for a lot of people who try to come into my program. First, I’m very exclusive about this, if you don’t believe in legacy, and you don’t believe in the journey, I don’t have time for that. I just don’t. And therefore the commitment to the coaching program is about accepting those two concepts. So when we do that, though, I immediately start off with I believe in the three A’s, because everyone struggles with how am I going to engage with my team? Right, so now I’ve got these people, I’ve recruited them. Now how do I get the level of engagement? How do I retain that?
Because obviously, journeys will wear you out, right? That’s the whole concept. It is not a short journey, we’re not going to the end of the block. We have a journey. And it may take us a couple of years. May take us three or four years, may take just 10, I don’t know yet. We’re going to figure that out. It depends on how good we are. The better we are, the shorter the journey. Why we will accomplish the purpose. But the three A’s attraction, attention and appreciation. When I talk to leaders about engagement, those are the three elements that generate exceptional levels of engagement. Attraction is positive energy.
If you want to be a leader, and you can’t exude positive energy, you can’t attract people, people are attracted to the positive. If you’re negative about what you’re doing, or about how you look at people, no, they’re not going to come to the team. So you have to have that that’s the number one element. There’s a lot of other elements for attractive, but the reality is positivity is the number one. The second one is attention. People crave attention. And the higher up you are in the hierarchy of leadership, the more they crave attention from you, you have actually set yourself up to be that magnet for them, right? They’ve been attracted to you.
Once they’re attracted to you. They now want your attention. And we struggle with this as leaders because you know what, we don’t have the time. And if you don’t have the time to pay attention to your team, to them, and ask and be curious, ask the right questions. Be empathetic, be compassionate. Oh my God, these are words that leaders run away from. Compassionate. Oh, that’s not the way you lead? Yeah, it is. It absolutely is. Because empathy is finding out the person’s problems. Walk a mile in their shoes. Compassion is actually doing something about it. It’s the action verb. Do that. And the third one, of course, is appreciation. Do you know how difficult it is for us to say thank you to people?
It’s stunning to me how hard it is to say those simple words. During the pandemic, worst week of everybody’s life, and they were going home on Friday, and you know what leaders would say? See you on Monday. This was like an invitation back to hell. It’s been a terrible week. I can’t, we just barely survived and you want me to come back for some more of that. How about if at the end of the week you say to your team, thank you you, I appreciate you. Thank you for sticking with me on this journey, because it’s gotten a lot harder than any of us thought it would. But you’re still with me. And because of that, I want to tell you how much I appreciate you. I don’t have. I ran out of words.
Nicole: Well, I thought that was fantastic, too. So one of the questions that, you know, you guys know, I asked on the podcast is, you know, what are the most important skills of a successful leader? And he essentially just answered that. So, you know, these are skills. I don’t know if you heard him say, leadership is not introvert extrovert natural born. He’s saying no, no, no to that. I think that’s just a big fat debate that will be on for forever. Maybe when we get to heaven, God will say this one was a leader, that one was not a leader. I don’t know how it will all work out. But he’s saying that the things that we need to do, the skills you need to have are the three A’s and I love anything that has a little formula. Y’all know that. So attraction, you got to put out positive energy.
Paul, I’m wondering if you have an opinion on this. I will tell leaders or ask leaders, or ask during leadership development, I’ll say, are you guys allowed to have a bad day? Everybody’s like, well, yeah, absolutely we are. And I’m like, no, you’re not. You can’t have a bad day. Everybody’s looking at you. And I love what you just said, you said, people crave attention, you know, and so and they’re, and they’re watching you to see if you’re going to pay attention. And if while they’re watching you, you’re having a bad day, you just gave them all permission to have a bad day. So I’m sorry, if you get the big bucks you want to leave the legacy and go on an amazing journey, you got to show the way.
Now will you have a bad day? That’s a different question. The answer is yes. But you need to go out the park, take a drive, get your act together and listen to Paul Glover talk on the podcast or whatever, and then come back in and go at it again, get your attitude adjusted. So attraction attention and then show people appreciation. So I think I agree with you, Paul, most important skills of a successful leader. Those are fantastic. Okay, now, leaders are struggling out there. So what, you know, you’re you’re sitting with them, you’re coaching them? What are the struggles you’re seeing? And then how are you helping these leaders? So first of all, let’s talk about the struggles people are having, and how you’re helping.
Paul: Well, of course, I think that you, you’re spot on. These are extraordinarily difficult times, because they remain chaotic. We seek so much stability as human beings. And the reality is, our lives are not stable. Anyone who looks at the transitions that we have, and the good and the bad that get mixed in. But what we still crave it. It is kind of our ideal, and leaders crave stability. And now we are in a very tumultuous time, the black swan event. And I don’t think it’s the last one. But but so so they’re struggling with how do they, how do they contend? How do they continue to lead? And so I am a strong advocate of self care. I don’t believe that leaders spend enough time on self care. And that is a real issue for me.
And self care, and I’m always reminded that people use us all the time, but I think it’s appropriate, when you’re on the airplane, right? And the stewardess or steward is giving you the and when the masks drops down, you put it on yourself first, rather than on the human being who’s freaking out next to you. Why? Well, because that’s how you help the person next to you. Is that you show them that you’re, you’ve got what’s necessary to survive. Leaders have got to accept that that’s your responsibility. You actually said it, you’re in the constantly in the spotlight. You have chosen that by the way, this is your choice. I’m always interested when people say I hate the spotlight.
Well, you chose to be in it. Oh, wait a minute. It’s a little more intense than you thought it was going to be? Well, yeah, that’s called reality, right? Spotlight is intense. So the self care is huge. And during the pandemic, it was really easy for leaders to not engage in self care. And so on unacceptable, by the way. I would I required and require the people in my coaching program to keep a daily journal that reflects how many hours they sleep, how much exercise they get, and how much they eat and drink. Not calories. I don’t care about that. But I don’t want to I don’t want to see that you put down I drink and drink a six pack every night. Why?
Because the reality of that the impact of that is if you’re not covering the physicality, we’re whether we like it or not. We’ve got this this what do we call it a meat sack and this meat sack requires that we treat it respectfully. And when we don’t, it gets even. And it gets even by either making us so emotional, we can hardly interact with someone else without a breakdown, or it makes our decision making suspect. Because if you don’t get enough sleep the next day, it’s as as if you’re half drunk. I mean, the research is too solid on this to ignore. So I believe absolutely in self care.
And people, leaders who say they don’t have time, that’s just an excuse. You have to take the time, because your obligation is to be the example. That’s why you’re in the spotlight. And if you are not showing the appropriate behavior to your team, don’t expect them to figure it out. What they will do is emulate your bad behavior. So if you’d like to have a fit, yell and scream at someone at four o’clock every day, first, people finally stopped paying attention to you, but they believe it’s okay for them to do the same thing. So it’s absolutely essential that you, that you take care of yourself and use yourself as the example because you are the leader that allows everyone else to do the things necessary for their self care. It cascades down.
And one of the things I tell leaders is, first, I’m spot on with you on your bad day. No bad day. You’re a coach, you probably have five or six or eight calls a day. That eighth call expects the same level of energy and interaction from you, as the first call. There is no yeah, well it was the eighth call, I’m just going to suck. No. that’s not an acceptable way to conduct your business. That that violates the conditions of the relationship. So my contention is every day and I do this, by the way, I seldom recommend something I don’t do. Every day I get up and on my way to Starbucks, five o’clock in the morning, I recite my gratitudes. I believe we often need to remind, be reminded about how good our life is.
And leaders are usually, they’ve usually got a really good life. And I list out the people that are important to me. And every day I remind myself of who they are and why they’re important, and how lucky I am to have them in my life. This includes the people I coach. And if you’re a leader, it includes the people on your team. And not just the your executive team. If I’ve got if I’ve got a company of 200 people, I should be grateful for all 200. And I need to remind myself that the guy who makes sure that the that the bathrooms are clean, and the trash is taken out is just as important to my organization as the executive vice president. And I do that by using them and keeping them in my gratitudes.
Nicole: Alright, so there’s another skill for your list. Go back to your skills list and put practice gratitude. That’s fantastic. And I’m going to steal shamelessly from you, Paul, I’m going to say that when you have a bad day, it violates the conditions of the relationship. I love that phrase. It’s a it’s a little you know, attorney ish, but I really like it. It violates the conditions of the relationship. Don’t miss that. Oh, my gosh. Attorney popped out. Did you hear that. Okay. All right. So, he’s doing my questions in advance, which I love. I mean, and let me tell you what he just said. He said, some leaders are successful because they get the appropriate amount of sleep. They watch what they eat. Let me see what was the other one hold on everybody. And they have a daily journal. All right.
So that’s how people get more successful while others continue to just struggle along. So that is fantastic. Okay. All right. Well, I am just having a ball talking to you. I want to segue over to your book for a moment. I just got maybe five minutes or so to talk about your book. So would you do me a favor and hold that book up again for me? Would you do that? Okay, all right. So hold on one second. All right, I took a screenshot. Okay. All right. So we got that very good. All right. So it’s called WorkQuake. And so here’s the thing, I love this name of this book. Tell me how you came up with the name WorkQuake. I think it’s fantastic.
Paul: Why, you know, it actually occurred to me and again, this this book is old and, and at the time was controversial, just because of the concepts that I talked about. But I was looking at work as actually going through the turmoil that we’re seeing more and more now. I could sense that it was happening. That there was a level of dissatisfaction and frustration with the way work was being done. And I thought about earthquakes, it changes the nature of the environment. And WorkQuake is about that. It’s about changing the nature of the work environment to reflect a new reality.
So that’s where it came from. It was just a, just a word that I somehow managed to conjure. And by the way, I have to, I have to say, I’ve trademarked this name, by the way, just because I was like, why wouldn’t I? Someone else is using it today on it with a new book. And I’ve notified them that it’s a trademark deal. So I want all their profit. I don’t think they’re going to comply. But regardless, it seemed, seem to suddenly have a lot more resonance now than it did 10 years ago.
Nicole: Right. Well, you know, the thing that Paul shared with me when we were first getting started today is he said that this book when he wrote it 10 years ago, and you know, and he just said this thing, where it’s an old book, here’s the right word, Paul, classic. It’s a classic. It was 10 years ahead of its time. So now is the perfect time to read Paul’s book, right?
Paul: Yes. Oh, my goodness. Like I said, Yes, I am. Again, I was very clear about it with my editor. I said this, this book is never going to do well. And he was like, yeah, it’s a great book. No, nobody’s gonna read this book and say, we should do this. Now I absolutely. I have people in my coaching program, or people who come to my coaching program saying we agree with what you have to say. So yes, tell us more. And yeah, so I feel very proud about that. I just, yeah, it now is a book that I’ve hugged.
Nicole: Okay, that’s fantastic. All right. Well, so check out his book WorkQuake. I’m sure you can find it on Amazon and also on his website. And you can visit Paul Glover at paulglovercoaching.com. Paulglovercoaching.com. And you can buy the book there I bet, too. All right Paul. So do this. Do this for me. I know there’s like one special listener, some attorney that wants to be a coach and give it all up in the in the in the courtroom or something or some young person that’s like, oh, I’m I’m picking up what Paul’s laying down and give me one more nugget. What nugget would you leave everybody with?
Paul: I found that that being humble is a skill set that so few leaders have that you need to cultivate it. And we are all full of hubris and pride. And the higher up the ladder we go, the more prideful we get, because we continually be fed a line of BS about how good we are. And I tell everybody that comes into my program, because people who come into my program are already successful. And I tell them that the most difficult people for me to coach is someone who’s successful. Because at some point, you realize how hard it is to change. And you say, well, why would I do that, I am successful.
And the reality is, it has nothing to do with how successful you are, it’s how successful you want to be. Potential is where you need to look if you’re interested in change, because that’s what you aim for. Not how good you are, but how good you can be. And that’s what coaching to me is about. It’s about allowing that person the opportunity to improve, get better in as a leader and guess what, recognize more meaning out of their journey. I believe as a leader, the more you give, the more you get. But first we have to learn how to give and that requires we be humble.
Nicole: Yeah, awesome. Great things to leave us with. So don’t miss this everybody, another character trait for your list. Okay, so go back to your character trait list, right down humble. Learn how to cultivate it. And the first thing that Paul is saying is learn how to give Alright, so here’s your homework assignment until the next time I come back with another genius person like Paul Glover. Figure out a way to give to your people just a little something something so that they know that you appreciate them, because don’t forget. Hold on.
I’m going back to my notes Paul, hold on one second. Yeah, third A was appreciation. Right? So attraction, attention and appreciation. Paul Glover, it has been an absolute delight to have you on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. I absolutely adored hearing all of your philosophy. Hey all you leaders. Let’s go out there, be a hero and get people to work with, not for us, and build a vibrant culture. Thanks so much, Paul.
Paul: Thank you very much Nicole and thanks to your audience for listening.
Voiceover: Ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her strategies, systems and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email Nicole@nicolegreer.com. And be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at nicolegreer.com.
