Our special guest on this week’s episode of the Vibrant Leadership Podcast is Dr. Catherine Rymsha, an expert on leadership and lecturer at the University of Massachusetts, Lowell. She holds a Masters of Science in Leadership as well as a Doctorate of Education with a focus on Organizational Leadership from Northeastern University in Boston.
Between her academic and professional experience, she has taught thousands of courses on leadership feedback, given a TEDx talk, “Want to Become a Better Leader?”, and has determined how a person makes the decision to lead.
We chat with Dr. Rymsha about how her training and education has defined leadership, as well as:
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Articulating a vision
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How to be a more effective listener
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Leadership in a virtual environment and conducting better remote meetings
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The SBI model of feedback
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Defining your personal values
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And more
Mentioned in this episode:
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SBI at Center for Creative Leadership – CCL.org
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The Leadership Decision by Dr. Catherine M. Rymsha
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Catherine’s website: The Leadership Decision
Transcript
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Vibrant Leadership Podcast with leadership speaker and consultant, Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Alright everybody, it’s time for another episode of the Vibrant Leadership Podcast. And today I have one smart cookie on the line. I am so excited to have Dr. Catherine Rymsha, who knows what makes a leader, a leader. I mean, you guys, she’s an expert. She’s done her homework, literally. And so based on her years of training, research and consulting, she’s determined how a person becomes one, that they make the decision to lead, right. So it’s a decision. It’s not just like a title, I’m guessing, so she’s going to tell us, So Catherine is a lecturer at the University of Massachusetts Lowell, where she teaches courses on leadership. And she has taught for Merrimack College and several adult education community programs. She has spent over 10 years in marketing. And what she doesn’t know is I’m an old marketing gal, too. I’m much older than her.
But also, you know, I got that in my background, which is really important. And marketing is all about communications. So she does communication leadership roles ranging from marketing, healthcare conferences, to writing speeches on payment card security, she now leads learning and development for a software company. And between her academic and professional experience, she has taught 1000s of courses on leadership feedback, which we’re going to talk about huge stuff, and a career to gloat global leaders across an array of industries. So just like me, she’s got a TEDx talk called, Want to Become a Better Leader. Let me repeat that. So you can write it down, you can watch it Want to Become a Better Leader. Here’s how. Just listen. And it focuses on the importance of listening to leader listening to leadership. And she holds a Master’s of Science in Leadership, and a Doctorate of Education with a focus on organizational leadership from Northeastern University in Boston. So please welcome Catherine to the show, Catherine, I’m so glad you’re here. Yay!
Catherine Rymsha: What an intro I love that. I love the enthusiasm. So thank you for that.
Nicole: Yeah, I mean, if people are watching the video, they’re gonna look at her and go, she’s got what? She she’s she doesn’t look like an old scruffy, old doctor I had in college. So I bet you your students are delighted when you walk in the room. That is awesome. That is awesome. Well, I just want to hear from you straight from the doctor’s mouth to tell me what you think leadership is? How do you define it?
Catherine: You know, when I was writing the book, I, my editor was like, you should probably put in a definition of how you define leadership, since you’re writing a leadership book. And I was a bit stumped, believe it or not on how I actually define leadership. I mean, I’ve read books after book after book and article. And what it came down to was that initiative was a key word that really stuck out to me and that leaders are people who have a vision, I mean, rightly so. But then they’re able to really match that with taking the actions they need to, to lead and inspire others and moving towards said vision.
I think that’s one thing that people tend to forget that leaders aren’t simply just sitting in the C suite, or whatever title, which, you know, I’m sure we’ll talk about doesn’t simply denote leadership, but that they’re that they’re actually taking action and getting things done. As simple as that may sound but I think that’s still so critical to how people and myself and really we as an industry professionals define leadership is that how do these people get stuff done, and enable others to feel kind of a part of that?
Nicole: Yeah, that’s an awesome definition. And I love the word initiative, because initiative in and of itself means that somebody’s going to initiate the action, they’re going to put the vision out there. And so I think a huge part of leadership is being able to articulate the vision that you have. I’m curious, when you did your research and in your current role, where you’re hands on with leaders every day? How do you instruct or share with people? How do you put together a vision? How do you do that?
Catherine: When I’m working with leaders, I think one of the things that I’ve been looking at a lot lately, based on a partnership that we have, with a group up at West Point up in New York, called Thayer Leadership is really encouraging leaders that when they’re starting to launch a new project, or communicate with their teams, or really begin to kind of share their vision, they start with their intent and say our leadership kind of calls it a leaders intent, which I’ve really loved. And I don’t want to take credit for that at all because it’s not mine.
But I think in my day to day leadership instruction, it’s been kind of critical and something that the leaders that I work with, on a regular basis have really bought into because it’s simple to think about what is my intent for what I am doing and how, in defining my intent, can I communicate that to others So they understand what their piece of that intent is. And they feel empowered to work and towards that. Like I said, it’s not mine. So I don’t want to take credit for it. But I think in my day to day, that’s been a tool that I’ve seen from the organization that I work with, and my partnership with Thayer, that’s really been kind of instrumental in helping leaders understand how they clarify their vision through their leader’s intent.
Nicole: Right, right. So I love that. So I have a mentor. And so that’s one of the things all leaders should have is you should have somebody that’s further along in their career further along in the company, somebody with great experience to kind of feed into your life, because you shouldn’t try to reinvent the wheel, you should learn from others, which is what this podcast is all about. But my mentor, her name is Ann Sterrett. And she says, here’s the thing leaders need to do, they have to have intention, right. So your leaders intent that you love, and then they have to have attention.
So their attention, and I just love that because I’m going to tell you my intent. And then I’m going to make sure as the leader, I’m paying attention to that attempt and it’s being attended to right, so we’re gonna hold people accountable, essentially, right? So I love that. Now, your TED Talk is just fantastic. I absolutely love it. And I agree with you wholeheartedly about listening. And you mentioned just a moment ago that you know, communication is a key skill in leadership. Talk a little bit about what led you to talk about listening, I heard both stories on your TED Talk about your own personal experience, but then you kind of leaned in and did even more research. So tell us a little bit about why listening is so important in leadership.
Catherine: Yeah, it’s one of those leadership abilities that I never really gave a lot of thought to until I was doing my dissertation at Northeastern and trying to get that doctorate under my belt. And I was interviewing a practitioner at a health care center, or system, I should say, in Mississippi. And we were going through the interview, and I was asking her questions, you know, what’s made you a better leader? What skill sets? And what does that look like? And what does that mean, and she was going on and on and on. And, you know, it was about maybe 11:30. So I was getting a little hungry, a little peckish, if you will, and
Nicole: Happens to the best of us.
Catherine: I was starting to zone out. And I know, I was looking at my phone, I was taking the notes and you know, partially listening. And then I feel like she could read my mind because she was like, you know what leadership skills really important. When I was like, what was listening. And I’m like, oh, when did she know, it was starting to zone out. But then she continued on. And she was really talking about how the program made her a lot more aware of her listening ability and how that really did a great thing and helping her wake up to how essential leadership and listening kind of are to one another. And she talked about how it really helped to improve her relationships or kind of level of empathy with working with her team members and her patients. And she worked for a healthcare system. She was really in the weeds with that.
But she also talked a lot about how becoming a better listener helped her at home, and how the program overall becoming a leader helped her big time. And I think that was one of the things that stuck out with me the most and considering my own personal experience about having managers who haven’t listened to me and knowing how that can make you feel this big when you’re in a meeting and somebody makes you over speaks over you or doesn’t listen to you or asks you the same question six times when you’ve told them. And that was just such a such an eye opening thing to me, which is why I wanted to do my TED talk on it, especially considering being on the TED stage or the TEDx stage unknown. That’s kind of crucial to what TEDx listeners are trying to, to get. Learn something through listening.
Nicole: Right, right. Yeah. So in, in your research and in your work, what what are the skills of listening, if you were to like, kind of break it down a little bit more? For my listeners, I’m wondering, what are the what are the tips or tricks or things they need to think about in terms of listening? How do we do that better?
Catherine: I think the first thing, and this is always a challenge, and especially being at home in the COVID virtual environment is trying to be present. And I know that that sounds rather simple and something that I think many of us are aware of when we’re trying to have a work meeting, but I still think many of us forget that. I mean, we’re on the Zoom meeting, you know, we may not turn our cameras on. So there’s not that level of being present like there is at work when you’re sitting face to face with one another. But we’re still trying to communicate even though it is virtual, so still having that level of being present and being respectful of someone else’s time.
Like I said, there are Very simple kind of reminders, but I think are still so important. And especially as we as leaders try to connect and show empathy of this virtual environment really being focused using the some of the tools that these different platforms have to try to connect, even in the sense that I think the focus and then being present is something that’s really critical and trying to eliminate distractions. I know, you and I were just chatting about dogs, and it can be easy enough to have the dog bark or one has children or, or anything happening. So realizing that but still trying to address and show respect for those that you’re chatting with and and be in the moment.
Nicole: Yeah. 100% So breaking down the listening, this is what I heard Catherine just say she said, you know, we have to learn to be present, right, which is essentially a couple of character traits, like don’t miss that. She said, you know, it’s got, you’ve got to be somebody who is respectful. I love that, you know, like, you know, I’m not just here to get through the meeting, I’m here to show respect to everybody who’s in the meeting. Like that’s a great way to frame it, right. And then the other thing she said, was empathy, that it’s so important to like, put yourself in the other person’s shoes that you’re listening to.
So I absolutely adore that. All right, excellent. So you’re listening, listening, Ted Talk, we’ll put it in the show notes. In fact, we’ll put it right up here, and people will read it on the screen. So we’ll do that. So please check out her Ted x talk. It’s awesome. All right. So tell me about what you think’s going on in the world. Today, we’re in this crazy COVID world. And everybody is like trying to figure out how to lead remotely, how to overcome all the challenges that we’re facing. I’m wondering if you have some insights about how leaders might try to manage our COVID world.
Catherine: I think one of the things especially when it comes down to leading remotely that I am seeing managers not do because it’s easier to to do this in person than what it is virtually is getting feedback. And feedback is a topic that is near and dear to my heart, I have gone all over the world and trained on feedback. And it’s really been interesting to hear how different cultures will get feedback. And some of the kind of my own mistakes and trying to talk about feedback across the globe have kind of led me down. But I do think that that’s one thing that I’ve seen leaders shy away from now that they’re at home, because they feel like they can hide behind the computer screen. And I think there’s such a huge opportunity for leaders to try to connect still with their teams, even though they’re virtual, and ask that direct question. In this virtual environment. What do you need from me? Considering COVID?
Like we said, the virtualness of all of this the working from home that the emotional strain, the relationship strain that all of us are facing, trying to navigate these uncertain times. And that can be something simple, so simple that a leader can do to say to their people, what do you need from me right now. And there, people might not need anything, but at least it opens the door for their team members or their peers or whatever that looks like to say to them, I need you to do X, Y, and Z this differently on calls, or I need you just to leave me alone on Friday. So I can have a meeting free day to catch up or try to find some balance. And that can be such a simple thing. But I think even just having that dialogue and putting it out there can help leaders get the insight. They need to tailor their style all things considered.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. So this thing of like connecting with people, and giving them what they need. Yeah, you know, I think it’s so important. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the Center for Creative Leadership. Did that come up in your research? Well, that that place is in my backyard here in North Carolina is right here in Greensboro, or, excuse me, yeah, Greensboro.
Catherine: That’s right!
Nicole: It’s right in my backyard. Greensboro, North Carolina, I’ve had the privilege of spending time there. And they have like a little formula called DAC, right. And it’s really their definition of leadership, which is direction, alignment, and commitment. And I think what Catherine is talking about here is that when you say what do you need from me, you’re trying to get this thing called alignment, right? Like the leader is trying to get this, you know, thing done the leaders intent, I love that I’m going to share that with everybody. You know, here’s my intent, but like, I got to make sure you have what you need to get my intent done. I might have a blind spot. I don’t know that you’re missing a tool, a tip, a piece of information, whatever you need, but I got to get alignment and then the people who are working remotely, can make a solid commitment to get the work done. So DAC everybody, it’ll be right up here. D are over there. Oh, there it is DAC. And you’ll get that little formula. I’ll put it in the show notes.
All right. I absolutely love that. So just checking in with your people. Another thing I think is so interesting that you’re talking about because Hello, I’m on this Zoom all the time with people. And you’re right, people are hiding behind their photo of them and their dog or whatever. And so and so I think, you know, there’s a real big disconnect. How could leaders be more intentional about creating what, I don’t know what you call it, Catherine, but I call it like a heart connection with people even though we can’t, you know, high five in the hallways and hug each other goodbye at the end of the workday. How can people make a heart connection during these times?
Catherine: Now it’s a great question. And I’ve had a lot of leaders come to me too. And I think at first, when COVID just started, I was looking up on Google, like, you could go into a team chat and share memes about how you were feeling that day. And I thought like that was pretty cool. And there’s a lot of suggestions to a lot of the leaders that I work with, like, hold a virtual happy hour on a Thursday or have lunch with one another in the virtual setting. But now that we’ve been doing this for about over nine months, now, those ideas have burned everyone out, because they’re sick of the virtual happy hours, they’re sick of watching one another eat on screen, although I still think that there’s some oneness and connection and doing that every once in a while.
But I still think there’s a simplicity in leader, kind of just calling their people up. And this is gonna sound so simplistic, but I think for me, this goes a long way. Today, I called my own manager just to chitchat for five minutes. And we talked about our weekends. And we talked about kind of how we were feeling today. And I found more benefit in that and just feeling connected with her. And, you know, I took the initiative to reach out to her, but she’s always reaching out to me, too. And sometimes you just need that moment of a five minute break, just to have somebody say like, how are you? What are you doing, and it doesn’t feel like that forced fun, like a team lunch over zoom might feel like or virtual happy hour, which can get a little touchy sometimes and feel a little awkward.
But I think even having that quick five minute chat, like, Hey, how are you doing? I’m not even calling about work. I’m just calling to see how you are, can go a long way without some of the pressure, like some of the other kind of things that people are doing right now.
Nicole: Yeah, and I just had a total hit. I mean, like, I was just like, you know, what Catherine is saying? And correct me if I’m not if you’re not saying this, but almost like, you know, the happy hours, like some kind of performance or show we need to put on or something. You know, all people want to do is is know that you care, right? So it’s kind of like, this is a nonperformance phone call when you said, I’m not even calling about work?
Catherine: Yeah.
Nicole: You know, that’s when the heart connection occurs, right? It’s like, holy, you’re out? Well, actually, my kid has the sniffles. And I’m trying to teach algebra and I’m lost, you know or whatever. So I love what you said, I think that’s a fabulous tip is to just call this is a non work call. I’m just checking to see how you are everybody write that down? Because that’s pure genius. All right, so let’s go back to feedback, because I think feedback is huge.
Catherine: Oh, yeah.
Nicole: And we know that feedback, and performance management are our, you know, go together, like peanut butter, jelly. And performance management is really one of the top concerns of leaders is like, how do I get all my humans to do better? Right? It’s not necessarily do more, but it’s a lot of times like how do I get them to do better? How do I get them to see their potential? One of the things I believe, Catherine is that people are chock full of potential and leadership is to kind of tease it out of them. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about how you see feedback. I love that you’ve traveled and, and done so much with it, just kind of jump in there and be messy. Tell us about feedback. How do leaders do that?
Catherine: It’s a tough one and one that I’ve struggled with myself. And in my book, I’m always like, go get feedback and evaluate. And then I don’t even give like a great way to do it. Because the best way I’ve seen it is through the Center for Creative Leadership. When I first read about this is the SBI model. So that’s it.
Nicole: I love it. Tell them about it. Everybody SBi: situation, behavior, impact go.
Catherine: I don’t know what took me so long to find that model. But I will tell you that when I teach both within the corporate setting and in the academic setting, and people are like, well, I don’t know how to give feedback. And some of them are like, well, I love the sandwich approach, which I no offense to you your listeners if you love it. I hate the sandwich approach.
Nicole: Oh wait, hold on. Virtual high five. You ready? 123 boom. Oh, me too. It’s so confusing to the person receiving the feedback.
Catherine: I know it and I think how do these big time consultancies and other organizations, how’d they get away with giving feedback in this way that can be so confusing to somebody and they could walk away thinking like, I don’t know which way is up with what they just told me? Am I gonna get fired? Am I gonna get promoted? What does this mean to what I have to go do next to my job? But the SBI model has been a godsend of being like, okay, let’s strip the emotion out. Let’s get right to business.
So people have a very clear, actionable takeaway from the feedback that you’ve just given them. So situation, what was happening behavior, what did you actually do? It’s not a judgment, this is not a time to play the perceptions reality game, within the level about impact view. And I think using SBI as a way to open up a dialogue of, you know, going back to that term or phrase I just mentioned, perception is reality. Well, I saw you do this, and this is what I thought the impact was, you know, going back to that other word, was that your intent? And even having that conversation can do so much for alignment, clarity, relationship building? I mean, that SBI model has been one that I cannot recommend enough.
Nicole: Yeah. So I’ll tell y’all where you can go to find out more about that. You can go to CCL.org and they have a bunch of white papers and things on that. So let’s just slow down and tell him what it is again. So it’s situation, behavior, and impact. And so the other thing that I think is so great about the CCL, an alphabet soup, right? CCL has the SBI. But anyway, Center for Creative Leadership has the situation behavior impact model, but the thing I think that’s also missing for leaders is like, you don’t just give feedback when people are not doing well.
Catherine: Yeah, totally.
Nicole: Talk about that. Because you totally agree. So go ahead, what do you have to say about giving positive feedback or celebratory feedback?
Catherine: Well, feedback has such a bad reputation. I mean, you say back to somebody in their hearts gonna start to palpitate, you know, of like, what did I do wrong? And where did I screw up? And we’ve really made a mess of feedback. And that you’re right. I mean, there’s that great book out there, Thanks for the Feedback, which talks about, you know, feedback being a tool for like, yeah, evaluation for performance management, but also for a way to kind of recognize, especially now I think people need to be recognized for their hard work when they’re working 12 hours a day, virtually, and trying to balance everything at home, to coach and I think the beauty of using SBI within those different kind of buckets of feedback really enables people to have a clear dialogue on the good behaviors and what they’ve kind of succeeded in and you know, if there’s an opportunity for some kind of improvement, having that dialogue, too.
But I feel like yeah, the beauty of the SBI model, and I’m glad that you pointed this out, that I remind leaders about all the time is like, yeah, you can use that to kind of redirect. But you can also use that method of feedback to reinforce the behaviors and the and all the good stuff that people are doing. So they feel a reward that they know that they’re doing well, and that they know exactly what they did, that helped you, as a leader kind of assess their work or whatever they were doing as good work. And I think that just can do so much for clarity.
Nicole: I agree. I agree. Yeah. So you know, I will have leaders all the time. Tell me, you know, I wish people were more enthusiastic. I wish people were to your point. We’re better listeners, I wish people would, you know, take action quicker. Okay. I’m like, Okay, well, here’s what you do is like when somebody is enthusiastic, you say, hold on, everybody, just now, Katherine. She’s still stood up, she high fived. And she smiled really big. And the impact that’s having on me is that her enthusiasm is contagious. Like that’s an SBI there’s the situation to behavior and the impact. And then don’t miss what Catherine also said, she said is back to intent.
So one of the things they teach at CCL Center for Creative Leadership, is that you can have SBI high. And the high is make sure your intent is like, I don’t know, pure or good or wholesome, I guess is the right way to say it. Because sometimes as a leader, you could be like mad at what somebody’s doing. And so you want to like, teach him a lesson you want to get even, or whatever your thing is, I mean, like, check your intent. You know, really, at the end of the day, the leaders job is to I love it. I have a word Catherine said she said redirect, you know, like, you’re just going down this path here and I don’t think it’s healthy. So I’m gonna bring you back over and get you back in alignment. So we’re right back to direction alignment commitment. So look at us look at all this Catherine. We’re doing great.
Catherine: We’re hitting all the high points.
Nicole: Yeah, that’s right. That’s right. So feedback is so important. Well, let’s let’s dovetail two of your concepts that you love, which is feedback and listening. Where does listening play into feedback? How does a leader need to listen during a feedback process?
Catherine: I think taking the fear out of feedback, like we were talking about a few moments ago.
Nicole: I love that. That could be a total post on social media.
Catherine: Totally could. People are so prone, like I said, to think that feedback is a negative experience. And it’s not. And I think sometimes when I coach and talk to leaders, I’m like, well, let’s go get some feedback. They freeze, because we’ve looked at feedback is such a negative concept and such a negative exercise, and yet it can be so positive. And I think in knowing that, and knowing that feedback can give us opportunity about where we go next with our leadership, it’s trying to go into feedback conversations with more of an open mind. Like I said, that’s much easier said than done, because I think people have a naturally anxiety that when they sit down to receive feedback, and to have that one on one, whether it be performance dialog, or something kind of impromptu, that they may not be present in the moment with that lens on the feedback dialog.
It’s like I said, that’s easier said than done. But I think that’s just a level of kind of self talk that leaders can go through of thinking of, you know, I’m going to get this feedback. And I’m going to really listen to what’s being said, both verbally and non verbally and knowing that this isn’t an attack on me personally. But this is this is what the real challenge comes in. But this is really an opportunity for me to grow and to become a better leader, and to hear where I am doing well, and not simply screwing things up. And it’s tough. But I tell leaders all the time, you know, you’re getting this feedback to help you improve, and people want to give you feedback with good intention and helping you improve, because if they didn’t care, they wouldn’t share the feedback, they just want to see you out the door. Now, you know, like I said, simple but important.
Nicole: I love what you’re saying. So Catherine, tell me a little bit about what you would say to a special listener. You know, one of the things that you and I both do is we both teach, and I teach leadership all the time. And I don’t always teach the leaders I taught I teach the folks that want to get into leadership. And a lot of times they give me like a group of managers. And they think there’s a difference between managing and leading, which really, I feel like management skills or leadership skills and leadership skills or management skills. It’s all in one big pot that you might have researched, that proves different, so prove me wrong. But tell me a little bit about what you would share. How do I become a leader? If I’m not in that position right now? What would you give advice to like your students in your classes?
Catherine: Yeah, I think one of the things, you know, going into that academic level, and even with some of the corporate level stuff, too, is that I asked people to define what leadership is theoret, some of them might sit down and make that list of like, well, a leader does this, and a manager does this. Well, yeah, I think you you’re right, they’re all on the same pot. But I do encourage my students to first define what this means to them. So they have a kind of foundation to move from, because if they think leadership is is one thing, and you know, they’re not quite defining themselves in relation to those terms that they equate with leadership, it’s going to be kind of, it’s gonna be difficult for them to achieve it. So I think first defining what leadership means and kind of then thinking about why one wants to be a leader.
Nicole: So talk a little bit about people determining what their values are, if they’re going to go into leadership.
Catherine: Values and leadership go together, because your values are going to dictate how you live your leadership lifestyle, and how you make decisions as a leader and what that means to what you’re going to do and what you’re not going to do and how that’s going to influence those around you both on a personal standpoint, and a professional standpoint. I think taking a moment for everyone, regardless if they’re in a formal leadership role or not, it should take that few moments to define what leadership is. But then alongside that, also define who they are as a leader and what some of their own personal values are. And I have my students do that, which they think is going to be a really easy exercise for them to define their what we call leadership brand, to how they define leadership, both in the general standpoint, as well as in relation to what they want to do with their own leadership lives.
And like I said, they think that’s going to be a piece of cake, like, Oh, of course, I know who I am as a leader and how I define leadership. But I think once they go through that exercise and really start to give even more thought to okay, now that you’ve assessed this and defined it, what are you going to do with this information to really influence your own life, both in the classroom and completing this course? But then outside of the classroom as you really navigate through your career and my MBA students, a lot of times our VPs at global organizations and that they think it’s so simple, and they’re the ones who struggle with it the most, because they just think like, hey, I’m at this level. I’m a formal leader.
I’m this that and the other thing and lotty da, but they get to the point where they haven’t thought about who they are as leaders from that aspect before, and it really can be challenging and eye opening for them to think about, you know, I’ve made it this far, what does this really say that my legacy, what I want to kind of leave and how I want to be recognized and kind of thought of so.
Nicole: Wow, I am so curious about leadership brand. So yeah, that’s kind of, maybe give our listeners like, here’s like, 1,2,3,4, whatever it is that you need to do to define your leadership brand, because I think this is huge, because my brand is Vibrant Leadership.
Catherine: Yeah.
Nicole: And I totally get what you’re talking about. And my whole thing is, is like, if you come in the room, and you light things up, people get excited about the future, they, you know, get to say what they think about the ideas, they put their brilliance, their genius into the process, and then we all come into a place where, you know, we’re gonna light up this future, we’re gonna figure out what it is we’re gonna go out to the future, turn iraq back to the present, figure out all the next right steps, which is part of my shine coaching methodology. Yeah, we’re gonna be vibrant, we’re gonna be electrified, it’s gonna be fun, it’s gonna be a good time. So I love leadership brand. So what do you do with your students to help them define their brand, this is this is really good. Everybody listen.
Catherine: I asked them in a paper, which is so boring, like write a paper, but I tell them to write a story about a time that they feel like they acted like as a, as a leader. I think once they write that story, they can then go through and summarize like, through my behaviors that I’ve demonstrated in the story that I just wrote about to my teacher, this is how I’m able to define my leadership brand and some of my values. And it’s a challenge I have them, you know, I’ve probably got hundreds of papers defining what leadership brand is, which I should probably start to rip some of those off for my own benefit not to tell my students that, but I think that’s one thing that they’ve challenged with is like, you know, you want your leadership brand similar to any sort of brand, like the paper towels you buy at the supermarket to be kind of a representation of who you are and what your legacy and your reputation is.
So how are you actually living that, which is where that element of telling the story comes into play. So they, they can then make the connection between how the two go hand in hand. And like I said, they do this assignment, they think it’s going to be a piece of cake. And then they’re emailing me a couple days beforehand, like I’m struggling, what does this look like? And we talk through it and they figure it out, which is a lot of fun to hear all their stories, but it proves the point to them, too.
Nicole: Yeah. 100%. Okay, so what I heard you say is that, think of a time when you felt like your leadership was seriously impactful? Like, you’re like, oh, my God, I did good right there. And you write that down. And then out of the story, you’re gonna glean your leadership brand looking for like key behaviors, core values, you know, things that you did or say, that really brought the leadership experience to a level where there was, like, we’re just talking about there was performance on the other end of it, something really happened. That was significant.
Okay. So that is great. So a little little recipe for leadership brand. Okay. Everybody put that in their pocket. And so the last thing I just want to ask you is, you know, what, what are you going to share with me about leadership? And I’m not asking the right question, you know, if you were at the front of the room, you’ve got a whole classroom listening in right now. And it was the final day of class, what would you tell your leadership students? How would you kind of sum it up?
Catherine: I would say, you know, we’re all capable of leadership. And if we make decisions that really encompass who we are as people with what we’re trying to achieve in our lives, and then use our decisions to move us towards or forwards on that path, that’s really going to be the differentiator and whether we lead or not.
Nicole: Yeah, that’s fantastic. That’s fantastic. And, you know, don’t forget, Catherine has a book. So if you really want to get inside her head, she’s got a book, tell us about your book and where we can find it.
Catherine: Sure. So my book is called The Leadership Decision. It’s on Amazon, Barnes and Noble and Apple books right now.
Nicole: Fantastic, fantastic. So go check it out. And then let me spell Catherine’s last name for you. It’s R Y M S H A. And Catherine C A T H E R I N E, check her out on Amazon, get her book, The Leadership Decision. And then where else could we find you? If we wanted to hire you to come in work with our leaders and put you to work? How would we get up with you? Sure. So
Catherine: Sure, I’m on LinkedIn. And I also have a website, which is theleadershipdecision.com.
Nicole: Okay, fantastic. Well, it has been an absolute delight to be with you today. Catherine, we’ve learned a lot we’ve learned about leader’s intent. We’ve talked about feedback at a significant level we’ve talked about listening and then how to develop your leadership brand, so you have a lot of takeaways from today. So, Catherine, I’m grateful for you giving all of this genius to my listeners. And I hope that we’ll get together again soon. We’ll hang out.
Catherine: Thanks, Nicole. I appreciate being here. And thank you all for listening.
Nicole: Yep, have a great day. Thanks.
Catherine: Thank you.
Voiceover: Ready to up your leadership game? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her unique SHINE method to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Email speaking@vibrantculture.com and be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at vibrantculture.com/TEDtalk.
