Our guest this week is a business consultant and former corporate executive with decades of experience. Rona Lewis is the CEO and co-founder of Playful Mind Project. She helps companies improve their corporate culture and their employee engagement through purposeful and attuned play. By facilitating certain activities, for certain reasons, at certain times, Rona is able to:
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Raise trust levels and the quality of communication on teams
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Increase collaboration and innovation
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Lower stress levels and lessen interpersonal conflicts
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And much more
From improv to doodling, Rona shares with us a few playful activities you can bring to your team today – and a couple playful pitfalls to avoid. Don’t miss this episode and get ready to have fun!
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Rona Lewis: See the world through a child’s eyes.
Nicole Greer: I love it.
Rona: With a sense of newness and wonder.
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Vibrant Leadership podcast with leadership speaker and consultant Nicole Greer.
Nicole: Welcome to the Vibrant Leadership podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and they call me the Vibrant Coach and today I am here with none other than Rona Lewis. So let me tell you a little bit about her. I’ve got her bio. Rona Lewis is the CEO and co founder of the Playful Mind Project. We’re gonna have a ton of fun today. She has a consulting company that helps companies improve corporate culture, employee engagement, which I’m telling you this is the thing, this culture engagement thing, using aspects of purposeful and attuned play.
She calls herself a play instigator. I love that. I’m wondering if it’s on her business card. She has 15 years of experience as a business consultant coming from a long career in corporate executive media world. She ended up being the VP in a sales position so she knows how to close the deal, I’m guessing. And she’s been a professional speaker and workshop facilitator for 14 years. Her clients include Aon am I saying that right, Rona?
Rona: You are.
Nicole: Okay. Honda, Metagenics, the City of Los Angeles, the City of Angels, and Huntington hospital and Loyola Marymount College. So I am absolutely delighted to have Rona here. Thanks for joining us today.
Rona: Oh, it’s my pleasure.
Nicole: Very good. Very good. Well, we open up the podcast with one question always, which is Rona, how would you define leadership? Everybody listening to this podcast, trying to get their head around the fact what what am I doing? What is this leadership thing anyways?
Rona: You know, the word leadership is such an interesting word, because people’s egos get wrapped around the word leader, just like, you know, oh, I’m a CEO. If you’re working for yourself, and you’re an a solopreneur, awesome for you, you’re the CEO, it kind of you know, it means everything. And it can mean nothing at the same time. A leader doesn’t necessarily mean to, well I should say, to be a leader doesn’t necessarily mean you are in a leadership position. So when I think of who a leader is, it’s someone who has big ideas, they and they, they, they push it forward. They’re not so much, always concerned with, with how it’s, it’s about encouraging people, it’s, you know, a good leader who has high emotional intelligence will want people to be better than then they are.
The smartest leaders have smarter people around them. So, to me, good leadership is about encouraging the people who they have working with them and let and realizing that no man is an island. I know what I’m good at. I also know that I have a lot of things I’m not so good at. So I want those, you know, I want people around me who are great at things I’m not good at. You know, I have an awesome accountant, because I can pretty much balance my checkbook. That’s about it. You know, not that anyone that like has a checkbook anymore, but you know what I mean.
Nicole: I do know what you mean. Yeah, we got to have somebody who can reconcile the QuickBooks is what you’re trying to say.
Rona: Yeah, exactly. So, you know, so a leader sees the big picture. Sees what’s possible, and allows for other people’s ideas to to make their idea. Even better, they’re there, they’re open minded, they’re empathetic, you know, that, that, that sort of thing. Does that make sense?
Nicole: 100% Yeah. And I couldn’t agree with you more. I think, you know, the whole job as a leader is to glean the genius out of everybody, right? So Nicole has a set of experiences in history and education and whatever. But like if she gets in a room with Rona and three other people, like let’s put all our genius in the room and you teach me I’ll teach you, right. Let’s all grow together. Absolutely. I totally agree. So I love I love your business in that it involves this thing called play. I’m a pretty playful person. I like to work hard and play hard. So I’m all about play. So play consulting isn’t a usual area of expertise for business consultants. So how did this all happen? How’d you get started in play?
Rona: Well, you know, there are there are actually a couple of events. Many years ago when I was starting in the in the media sales world in New York and for those of you who are listening and watching, to be a media rep means buying means selling advertising. And we represented you know, radio, television, cable, newspaper, whatever I was selling, and we sold their their airtime to ad agencies. So when I was doing that, it’s it’s a very stressful job because you’re basically selling time. So when that time passes, you can’t get it back again. So that added on to the stress. At the time I was selling, I was the youngest media rep in the country.
And being, you know, a fairly attractive girl, basically, I think I was 23, 24. You know, I was it was, it was kind of stressful, because I had to try extra hard so that people would take me seriously. And one day, I was just over the top, I was kind of having a panic attack, basically. And I was I was dizzy. I was leaning over. And my friend Dale came over, and she has been in the business for a while and she grabbed me by the shoulders, and put her nose this close to mine. And said, Rona, you know, she basically she verbally bitch slapped me, you know, it’s like, snap out of it. Yeah, relax, there is no blood. No one ever died from advertising. Like, holy crap. You know, it was it was an epiphany moment for me. Of course, no one ever died from advertising, you know?
Nicole: Right. Right.
Rona: And, and we talked about it a little bit more. And she’s like, you gotta lighten up, have fun with it, you know, your stuff, you don’t have to prove it to them, you have to make sure they look smart. And then they will love you, and just have a good time with it. So that sort of got me interested in positive psychology, flipping mindsets. And then what after I got divorced and moved here, I was working with a client who who pulled me in and she said, can you do? I also do have a fitness background. And so I was I was talking to one of my clients who was a CFO at a marketing company. And she said, can you come in? And you know, set up a, like a weight loss thing for people? I said, no.
I said, it’s got to be goal setting. And, you know, because no one’s gonna do weight loss, it’s way too specific. What’s gonna make people happy, what’s going to. And so I went in, and I talked to people, and I looked at them, everybody was, like, stressed out, like, this is marketing and advertising. It’s fun. You’re doing all kinds of movie trailers, and there was movie candy all over the place, you know, and decorations, it was a fun atmosphere. Nobody was getting it. And that really pushed me over the edge to say, I’m not just doing consultant for well being, because that was more of my my focus at the time, I switched over to play. And it, you know, after courses I had taken, and it made me realize that this is what that missing link was to being more productive at your job, having better communication, having better strategy meetings, and brainstorming and teamwork.
It’s, it’s all about psychological safety, a positive mindset, being more open, being more trusting being more authentic. All these elements are part of purposeful play. And that’s, that’s what what I lead with. You know, play is is great, it’s, it’s enjoyable, it’s fun. Purposeful play, is doing certain activities for certain reasons at a certain time. So and I use the word activities as opposed to games. Because, yes, do we play games? Yes, we do. Sometimes, games can connote winners and losers, and that can separate people. But when you do an activity, it brings people together. So all it is it’s it could be the exact same thing. But it’s all about the verbiage. It’s all about how you spin it.
Nicole: Yeah, I totally agree. I think that semantics is a thing, right? So and, and, you know, I have I have a lady I’ve worked with for years, her name is Anne Sturett. And she’s like, be careful what seeds you plant with people, you know, and she says, you know, like, you can put an idea in their mind. And then that idea is going to, you know, grow into something that you may not want. So make sure that you plant the right seed. And so I couldn’t agree more than that, like positive psychology. I’ve got books right up here, right on my left, that are all about positive psychology. So if you’re not familiar with that concept listeners, go Google it. You’ll find a ton of things out there about it.
You can always pick up the phone and call Rona and talk about it with her. But I think also you know people in corporate America there’s there’s people who are naturally playful like you and I. And then there are people like we don’t have time to play games, we got to work. You know, and so, you know, doing activities that help us build the skills on purpose. I think is a beautiful way to look at it. That’s awesome. So what do you see as the importance in play overall, in business, I heard you loud and clear, you said, you know, people get, you know, down in the weeds, they’ve got the stress monster on them and like, all they see is the problems. So tell me how play helps people in business?
Rona: Well, overall, I mean, it adds another layer to how how you go about doing business. You know, stop to think about it. Everything you do in business, is a strategy. You know, even you know, even if it’s strategizing on how to work with your team, on how to move your business forward, how to how to bring productivity into it. And when you bring play into, into it, it adds another layer, and allows people to loosen up that helps with your creative mind and innovation. And it like I said, it facilitates trust, it facilitates, you know, happiness, and satisfaction with with where you are. All of that allows for that psychological safety, to share and be open and be willing to listen. Listening is such an important part of growth, productivity, strategizing, you know, all of those things.
So, you know, elements of purposeful play, if done correctly, you know, it’s not a one off thing. You can’t come in and say, I want to teach you how to how to play, I’m going to give you this activity, and then you leave. Well, you know, I can, I can have a day full of team building and have, you know, an awesome time if you’re doing a yearly thing. And you need to back that up with little things that keep you in that mindset. You know, so it becomes, it becomes rote for you. Did I answer that question?
Nicole: Yeah. So, um, so I think to the thing about play, and having fun is like, when people go up the feeling scale, you know, like, stress is down here. Sick and tired of my job is down here. Right? Yeah. But it’s like we, you know, you went mentioned the word. I’m feeling like I can trust the people I work with. I’m feeling happy. I’m feeling satisfaction, you know, like, you take people up the feeling scale. And then it’s just things are easier when I’m kind of floating a little bit, right. I’m not. Right. Yeah, absolutely. I think what you’re saying is ginormous. Well, I’m wondering. Oh, go ahead.
Rona: Okay. I wanted to add one more, one more point. What play also does is keeps you in the present moment. Because you have to pay attention. There is something that Steven Johnson who wrote the book Wonderland, how play? Wait, I have to read this, how play made the modern world. It’s an it’s an awesome, awesome book. And he mentioned something called the surprise instinct, which is what dopamine does for us. Dopamine is is they they say it’s a feel good hormone. Actually, it’s not a pleasure hormone, per se. But what it does, it improves attention and motivation.
And when we we get something that’s surprising, then our expectations, all of a sudden, we pay attention. It’s like, oh, I wasn’t expecting that. That’s what makes it fun. So when you’re doing these, these games and stuff that that surprise, surprise, instinct and, you know, kicks in. So you are more apt to pay attention when you’re having fun. And when you’re having fun, that surprise instinct allows you to learn and allows you to take it all in better. And then you can brainstorm better, and you know, do all the things and then you can you can become much more much more positive.
So when you stay in that present moment, you get all this benefit. And you’re not stressing, because stressing happens with replays and imaginings. We replay things in our mind, make mountains out of molehills and then we imagine what’s what’s possible. And we are hardwired usually to think negatively. Oh my god, I am so sure this is gonna happen. She’s gonna get all pissed off. And he’s gonna say, you know, and then, you know, so we have these negative expectations. And then we act because of those negative expectations, which doesn’t necessarily help things. So staying in the moment with purposeful play, helps in so many ways.
Nicole: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. So, I’m curious. What I was going to ask you is, can you give us a little synopsis or a vignette or like a little insider like telllLike an example of purposeful play. Like when you work with a client or your team, what’s, what’s it what’s one of these activities, so kind of let us see an activity so we can get our head wrapped around purposeful play.
Rona: Okay, here’s a good warm up. That will keep you in the moment now. Okay? I’ll give you one that’s just because there’s just two of us. Okay. So, if you and I are, you know, if, if I want to attune to you, this is where the attunement, you know, come comes in. We may be in different departments, or whatever. And I want to have a little fun, so that we can open up to each other. Now, we’re going to start really easy. We’re going to count to three, okay? And we’re going to keep going. So if I say one, you say two, I say three, you say one, and we’re going to go as fast as we can. Right? Okay. Yep. Okay. 123123123123. Okay, that’s the first part.
Yeah, we’re gonna take the number one, instead of saying the number one, we’re gonna clap. Okay, so it’s clap, two, three. Okay, ready? All right. So, right. Now, I don’t want to take too much time on this. But as we as we go along, each time we do it, we place like, and then I would ask you, okay, what’s a movement we can do for number two, and then we do a couple of times of that. And then the third one is all three things. So you could do this, you could do this. And you could do this, you know, whatever it is. And by the end, you’re laughing, because you’re going to make mistakes. And in improvs, which was some of what we do, you celebrate the mistakes, because that’s where the gold is. And, you know, we feature failure, and we should feature failure all the time, because failure is not bad. Failure, just get you one step closer to the outcome that you that you want, you know. So wasn’t that fun?
Nicole: It was fun!
Rona: And, and all of a sudden, yeah, you’re in a better mood. And that’s a great way to start a meeting. And if you’re on zoom, or if you’re in person, and you have 10 people, if you have 30 people, there are exercises we can do that will will get people going. And then we’ll use we can use what else have covered everything from color pencils to Play-doh to improv, dressing up in costumes so that we can roleplay what would happen if. I mean even even Legos has what they call serious play. And that’s a it’s it’s very similar to purposeful play, but they, I think they’ve trademarked it. So no one else can, can use it. But it’s a way to use metaphors and to, again, use use those metaphors to come up with new and innovative strategies for things. So that’s an example, you know, of what, what we do.
Nicole: Okay, I love it. I love it. And I think people need to just kind of see something. So. And I do, I did have fun doing that. And I did think it was fun. And I think we would end up laughing if we could go on, but we have to get on with the podcast. So what’s the difference? Like, get it real tight for us? What’s the difference between regular and purposeful play? Like what is the significant difference there?
Rona: Well, purposeful play is, it’s for an outcome. When you play in, you know, normally, when you’re in the in the flow, just just doing things to, to have fun, you know, with you, if you’re out, you know, sketching. Art is, is is play, even going to the movies is is a form of a play. But if you’re just going out and going for a run or, you know, doing shopping can be playing. It’s about being in that in that moment with no particular outcome. You know, if you buy a blouse or don’t buy a blouse, I like you know, I just like seeing what’s, what’s out there. Whereas purposeful play is doing something for and an outcome if I’m doing a purposeful play, exercise, or activity for a brainstorming meeting. We want to see what kind of ideas we we come up with, you know, so, you know, so that’s an example of purposeful, driven play.
Nicole: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Yeah. And I think, you know, I do a lot of training myself. And I think that the thing about teaching people is you know, they need to hear a concept, and then they need to experience the concept inside kind of play, purposeful play. Then afterwards, there’s like the debrief. Okay. So I introduced this concept. Now we’re going to play with it. And what, what, what just happened when we were playing? What what came to your mind? What did you realize? So, so that’s kind of where I’m vibing with you big time.
Rona: Well, exactly. And you and you said, the magic sentence. Just go play with it. How many times have you heard people say that, just go play with this and see what what you come up with. That gives your mind permission to come up with wild ideas that may work or may not work. And someone else may come up with something that springs from that. So right there that is purposeful play, right there.
Nicole: Yeah, I love it. I love it. Okay, so what are some benefits of using a you as opposed to like, books with games in them and doing it yourself? You know, I tell you, I’m in the same boat as you. We’re both consultants, you know, do this ourselves.
Rona: You know what, sometimes, absolutely, sometimes you you can. And, and I actually pair up with organizational development consultants business development it because they get the concept and they appreciate the need for it. And yes, you know, every so often that and there are tons of books, you know, theogy has bucket oh, oh, books of games to, to play. And it’s not always just about, oh, let’s try this one. You have to attune yourself to who you’re working with. And a lot of times, it’s easier for an objective observer to come in. Because when you are emotionally involved with your team, it’s not going to work.
There are people whether consciously or subconsciously, you may not like you may be jealous of you may, you know, there’s that, you know, emotions come in, and it will change the way you work with them. I’ll come in, I just want to see you know, how everybody works and what their personality is, you know, and I like, like you, I’m sure, we could read a room like, like that. And that’s part of the attuning process. And that is easier for us to do as objective consultants, and for an ongoing thing. I have so many different kinds of activities that are not necessarily in these books, because I thought differently. And it’s not just business games. We bring in improv, we bring in bring in physical movement, we bring in laughter yoga, that’s actually a thing. You know.
Nicole: I have done it. Yeah. And it is the best thing ever.
Rona: Right. So, you know, depending on what people need, sometimes people just need a stress relief. All right, we’re gonna do laughter yoga for 15 minutes. You know, and, and these sort of things take a person who has training in all different areas.
Nicole: Yeah, that’s fantastic. Yeah. And, you know, I think I agree with everything you said. It’s good to have that, you know, third party, I don’t have any real skin in the game, other than making sure you have a very exciting time while we’re together, right. But I’m not going to be here to fix any cultural team problems when I leave. That will be up to y’all, right? Hopefully, you’ll listen and take the skills and the tips and the techniques and strategies we’re giving you. But you know, the other thing, Rona, I don’t know if you’ll agree with this, but it’s also nice when like the team, nobody is the leader for a minute.
Rona: Absolutely.
Nicole: Right. We’re all on the same playing field, right? We’re all just player, we’re not the coach. We’re not the leader. And so we’re all levelled out, which I think sometimes is very good.
Rona: You know, that’s why I, when I was mad, I was married years ago, and for a while I lived up in a little town called Woodland Park, Colorado. I’m a New York City girl. That was a culture shock anyway. And there were softball teams. And I very into sports. So I joined a girls softball, women’s softball league. And it was the great equalizer because nobody knew how much money you made, who your husband was, what kind of house you lived in. Everybody was in shorts and a T shirt. And this is that same kind of thing. Because we were playing we were playing softball, you know? And this, we are in a room playing and activity that brings people together, we have fun. We want to pat each other on the back for a great idea. Not be jealous of them because they had an idea because for all you know, it was your idea that spurred the whole thing. You know, so it’s it’s getting to a place of of wanting people to succeed, because then everybody wins.
Nicole: Absolutely, absolutely couldn’t agree more. So jumping in what you think leaders really need to work on, you know, if you kind of take a step back, as far as I’m concerned, I’m over it. So COVID is over. Yeah. So, yeah, looking out into the future, what what do you see leaders really need to focus on moving forward? What would be the area that you would say, here’s where I would put some time and energy? And then how would you integrate play into that?
Rona: Well, I think leaders have to think differently now, because the world is so different now. You know, they really have to look at their employees through their eyes. And a lot of times leadership gets too myopic, in their, in their viewpoint. Yes, leaders need to have a big goal in in mind, and to push people forward. They also have to be empathetic enough to flip their eyesight, to where their people are coming from. You know, a lot of leaders are like, but we need you here in the office. No, you need them here in the office, because you need to see what they’re doing as opposed to trusting them.
If you don’t trust them, they’re not going to trust you. If they’re doing their work, if they’re coming up with ideas, if they’re making their their numbers, who cares? You know, so that’s what you know, I think leaders have to expand their their viewpoint in terms of how work gets gets done. And along with that, I believe that being in in person, every so often helps employees stay attuned to each other, you know, with, with the COVID, they were getting isolated, they were getting lonely, you know, mental health is such a big thing. And a lot of employees were actually getting paranoid, because they couldn’t see what anybody else was was was doing.
And if you can get them even on, on zoom, but everyone’s coming back to work. So even once a week, once every other week, you get everybody in the room to do some purposeful play. You know, these are our next goals. And we’re going to do some purposeful play, too, so that everyone can get an idea of what we’re doing, whether we do it all the exact same way, or what their responsibilities could be. Ideas, you know, all that kind of stuff. It will it will help their mental wellness, as well as their satisfaction with their job.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree. Okay, so, um, tell me a little bit about some examples of purposeful play, that I would do like in a staff meeting or something like that. Can you give us kind of like, just like we did that number thing a minute ago? Is there some particular thing we could do in a staff meeting? Because, you know, I think having a good intention of like kicking these staff meetings off in a, in a newly different way. I think people come in to staff meetings with, oh, we got to go to staff meeting.
Rona: This is what I would do. Okay. So, depending on how many people are there, let’s, let’s say there’s 15 people in a staff meeting. You get a bunch of colored pencils, put them in the middle of the table, then everybody gets blank paper. Okay? You time them for one minute. And all they do they pick a color, and they stick with it. They they doodle for a minute. No rules, they just have to doodle. Okay. Then you take at everyone’s creativity. And their thought process is a little bit different. Because you have to work with each other. This is the debrief, but I’m I’m telling you now, so you understand. You want to see what other people come up with. So you take the paper after minute, and you pass it to the person on your right. They have to start with your doodle. The only rule for this is your pencil point has to start somewhere on their doodle.
So if someone doodles, a house, you can’t draw a sun, if you have yellow, you know, it shouldn’t matter what what color it is, because if you want to draw a purple horse, draw a purple horse, you know. So you can draw an extension to the house, you can draw a tree that’s, that’s connected as as long as a pencil point is somehow connected. And you do this six or seven times you come up with amazing ideas, then you can take these and make them metaphors to for what you’re doing, or what what you’re trying to find an answer for if you’re trying to solve a problem. And it’s also a great way just to attune people and and have fun in the in the moment kind of get their their minds warmed up.
Nicole: Yeah, and I think that’s huge. Getting people’s minds warmed up. Because I think you have to again shift what they’re thinking about, bring them into the present, have that you know, where the dopamine is coming out of their hypothalamus gland. And, you know, they people start marinating in good stuff instead of whatever, they were marinating in their cortisol from whatever, just this morning.
Rona: And you know, to your to your point, our tagline is, shift happens when you have a playful mind. So as opposed to bleep happens, we added an F. Shift, right.
Nicole: I love it. I love it. Yeah. And you know, the big takeaway for me today. Well, I wrote down a lot of things is that, you know, leaders need to understand the concept of positive psychology. So I love that that’s kind of, you know, how you approach all your work, and I just would double, double dog dare everybody listening to go Google around about this idea of being positive, especially in the workplace, and then doing purposeful play so that we have trust, we’re happy, we have satisfaction, we learn to listen, we learn to get in the present moment. But the big, big takeaway for me today is this idea of attunement. Yeah, so, you know, tell me what attunement is. Like go real dialed in on that, Rona.
Rona: Okay. Now, the, the original concept of attunement comes from Gwen Gordon, who is like, the godmother of play, and I’ve gotten, you know, I’ve taken classes and certifications and stuff with her. She, she works on the psychology of play. Now, the original attunement is based on attachment theory, which is where a parent or a grown up who is in charge of a child, they they attune to each other, and that, you know, that’s how they get attachment. And when there’s no attachment, that’s when everybody gets screwed up, you know, and, and, as we, you know.
We’re all a little wacky, in that, in that sense, because, you know, nobody’s no parent child grown up child’s, you know, relationship is, is perfect. And as they attune to each other, you can sense emotions and reactions better, just by by by being there. And, you know, we’re all a little bit intuitive when it comes to that, to that point. And, you know, a lot of times, and that’s training, so when, when you walk in, if you want to attune to your people, you have to take your ego out of it, and just be there, which is, which goes back to my point of consultants being much more objective, because we don’t have opinions. We don’t have that whatever good, bad relationship. We just have what we see.
Nicole: No history.
Rona: Yes. So you know, that that attunement comes in, when we allow our ourselves to look at and see what happens even during the activities, we can see who’s playing along. Who’s not. Who’s shy, who’s not shy, who doesn’t want to play, you know, there, there are people who will, you know, sit back and fall but this is stupid, right? You know, and that’s what there’s something called forced fun. Forced fun, and I actually wrote a wrote about it, if you looked on my LinkedIn page, there’s an article that’s purposeful play versus forced fun. And forced fun is like making someone we’re gonna go in here and I hired this person damn it, and you’re gonna go in and do it.
Because we need better teamwork. Doesn’t that sound inviting? Gee, let me run. You know, nobody wants to do something like that. So you have to, there’s also a framework that the leaders, the managers, the HR people, you know, we have to work in tandem with them, to make it a choice and a happy choice. And that’s why you have introductions. And that’s why when I go in, I’ll talk to people first. I want to find out from them what’s going on, so I can better attune to them and formulate whatever program I’m going to do. I’m sure you do the same thing.
Nicole: Yeah, that’s fantastic. All right. Well, we are headed towards the top of our time together. And I want to ask you, this one little simple question. If you were mentoring, a single special listener, a leader that’s listening in and they’re like, okay, give me one little piece of advice that I need to be successful. If you gave us a piece of advice, would you like put in our pocket and carry around, what would it be?
Rona: See the world through a child’s eyes.
Nicole: Hmm. I love it.
Rona: With the sense of newness and wonder and that will keep you open to new ideas. New suggestions and take your ego out of it. You know, a child’s mind, a beginner’s mind, however you want to describe it by asking questions being curious. It does not signal weakness. If anything, it signals more strength because you are open to better ideas than yours.
Nicole: That’s fantastic. Great advice at the end. Let me repeat it, see the world through a child’s eyes or a beginner’s eyes. I love that. All right, so Rona, we want to know how to find you. Will you share with us your website and how we can find out get up with you hire you to come play with us?
Rona: Absolutely. The website is playfulmindproject.com and just Rona@playfulmindproject.com. You can find me on the website, you can look me up Rona Lewis le w i s on LinkedIn. I’m on Facebook. I’m on Instagram.
Nicole: You’re everywhere.
Rona: I’m omnipotent.
Nicole: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, Rona, thank you so much for being on the Vibrant Leadership podcast. I’ve enjoyed it so much. It’s been a lot of fun, and a great time to play.
Rona: My pleasure. Any time.
Voiceover: Ready to up your leadership game? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her unique SHINE method to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Email speaking@vibrantculture.com and be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at vibrantculture.com/TEDTalk.
How cool to see two fellow Podcasters Directory members connect and record a podcast!!
Nicole Greer
https://www.podcastersdirectory.com/nicolegreer
Interviewing Rona Lewis
https://www.podcastersdirectory.com/ronalewis