Evolve to your highest leadership potential. Gain clarity, retain top talent, get more done.
This conversation with leadership expert Shawna Schuh is a must listen.
What are the non-negotiables of leadership?
What is more important than your mission statement?
How do “I am” statements create integrity?
Shawna has the answers to these questions and the pathway to becoming the successful leader you are meant to be.
Listen now!
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Shawna Schuh: You create your day, by the way you think. What I think we forget is that we’re creating, we create all of it. I am at the scene of every crime in my life. So I can create something else, just by the way I think. And so you have that power.
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast with professional speaker, coach and consultant Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer. They call me the vibrant coach and I am here with none other than Shawna Schuh. You can find Shawna at shawnaschuh.com, and she helps leaders evolve to their higher potential. She has over three decades of experience working with remarkable professionals. And Shawna uses her expertise in leadership, business ownership and life with animals, I can’t wait to talk about that, to cut to the essence of how someone can shift their thinking for better and better results. So please welcome Shawna to the podcast. Hey, Shawna, how are you?
Shawna: I’m vibrantly excited. Nicole, you’re amazing. You’re doing great work building this vibrant community. You’re a giver, generous, I’ve just been impressed with you. I can’t wait, this interview.
Nicole: That’s fantastic. That’s fantastic. Well, Shawna right out of the gate, I’d like to get your definition of leadership. I’m kind of collecting definitions. I’m trying to find out what the experts think. So tell me what you think the definition of leadership is.
Shawna: That’s a great quest. I have been working with leaders for such a long time. And what I’ve really come to realize is that the best leaders are ones that help their teams, discover or uncover things themselves.
Nicole: Okay, I love this definition. Because I think one of the things that is happening out there with leaders is they, they get sad, they get mad they get unglad when they’re people don’t think like they think. And what I just heard you say is that one of the keys to being a great leader is to ask lots of questions, get people to discover the answers for themselves. And when the leader finds it, this person has the capacity to think, and that they think like the leaders thinking, this can make great synergy. So it’s all about asking powerful questions. What other than powerful questions, how do leaders get their people to discover the answers?
Shawna: Well and here, here’s where the challenge lies. I think that we as humans think we ask powerful questions. Of course, we all think we drive well, too. And we don’t. And so I think that if we are a leader, and we believe we should have people think like us, then we’re not really tapping the kind of talent that we have. And we’re not tapping our team’s talent. So it’s not just asking powerful questions, it’s actually being open to figuring out how to be strategic number one, in your intent, number two, in the kind of questions that you’re asking, and that they become more masterful.
I tell the story about my father, who was a master builder, just amazing. And when you would watch him work, he could do just anything. But when he would, when we use his hammer, that’s what just a tool, and he could just tap, drive tap, drive. I mean, he could hammer and it was crazy. And he was masterful at it. Now, the concept of nailing you know, hammering a nail into a piece of wood is pretty simple. It’s like asking a question, you don’t want to see me hammer. I miss the nail, and I bend the nail, and I hit myself. And it takes me a long time. And because I’m not masterful at it.
And so I think the biggest thing for anybody to be better is to not think that they do well. We must say, alright, how do I and that’s why you coach. That’s why I coach, because true leaders understand that they don’t have the answers. And they are all, I ask good questions all the time. Well, yeah, maybe maybe. What are your results? And if the results aren’t there, then they could get better at asking questions, or just being this leader that helps people discover things for themselves.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. So I love your concept that you’re talking about mastery. So let me read let me just regroup and say what Shawna I just said about leadership, because I think we don’t get things the first time and I know you’re on your treadmill or driving your car right now. So we help, a great leader helps teams, they help figure out how to be strategic. And when I said, you know, leaders oftentimes say why don’t people think the way I think and I think that’s the way they think is like you have to teach people to be strategic, right? Strategic is a great mental model to have in place and then this idea of having mastery so that you get results.
So I want to lean into the word mastery for a moment because I just did on over over the last two days last week, Thursday and Friday, I did a class on train the trainer with an organization called Carolina’s Farm Credit. And one of the things I talked to them about was trainers responsibility is to help people get mastery. But I would also say that it’s important for leaders to help their people get mastery. So when you talk about mastery, you were talking about your dad, you know, being able to just after repetition after repetition, nailing the nail into the wood or whatever it is that he’s working on. What are some, what are some other ways other than practice that people get mastery? Because I think this is a huge, huge thing to think about.
Shawna: Beautiful. Great question. And another small story. You have to, or you don’t have to, but when you ask this question of yourself, and ask this question of your team, how could we tweak not change, not even improve? But what could we do to tweak this to make it either more effective or more efficient, or work better for us? So I have a horse facility, I own a horse boarding facility. And there’s many, many horses in it. I live on 20 rural acres. And when I go down to the barn, I feed, I clean stalls I water and I laugh. Because I have this system, I go feed, water, hay, hay, grain. I have to give hay in the morning and set hay for the night and grain, my boy. And so what I started realizing is if you ask the right questions of yourself, then how could I change this up? How can I make it easier?
So I’ll have a bin that I put the hay in and then I don’t have to sweep so much. Or guess what, I need a broom here. But I also need a broom over there. Where do I keep things. And so as I’m tweaking, I’m improving my performance, I’m getting faster at what I do. And I become more masterful, because I’m challenging myself in this instance, to do things either more expediently because I got to come up and be on a podcast, and I clean my stall every morning. So when people ask me, they go, you clean your own stall? And I’m like, yeah, it makes me happy. Because the horse can’t do it for themselves. So how do you look at each thing you’re doing? Not as done? Result? One? Rather, how do we make it better?
How do we make it a bit more efficient, and adjust one degree gives you way more mastery, then someone who’s not thinking at all. Now, this, you just asked a great question. How do we get leaders, are saying how do I get people to think like me? Well, you don’t want them to think like you. That’s just my opinion. You want to just think like themselves, because that’s where innovation happens. But more importantly, if they’re thinking and you ask them, break it down for me, show me what you’re doing. And then in the middle of that, is there something that could shave that off or explain the reasoning behind this action? Suddenly, they uncover it. They go oh, my God, I don’t think I have to do it that way. Or, wow, I could actually take this step and combine it with that step. And bing bang, boom, you’re, you’re in.
Nicole: Yeah. So what I’m hearing you say is that one of the ways that you can get mastery is by tweaking the small things one degree. Look at what you’re doing on the daily, and then I love your metaphor, or maybe it’s an analogy, you help me, for cleaning your horse’s stall your cleaning your own stall? Did I get that right, that every day you get up and clean your own stall?
Shawna: Beautiful, yeah, when I’m cleaning my horse’s stall, I’m cleaning my own stall. Right? I’m cleaning my head out. And because a horse can’t do it for themselves. That was beautiful, Nicole, yes.
Nicole: Okay, fantastic. Well, you know, in your bio, what I mentioned earlier was the fact that you, you use your animals in your work. And so will you share a little bit about that with me? How that works?
Shawna: Well, I wish I could say that I’m doing more, you know, I bring people out. And we have an experience with a horse. No. I use animal analogies just like I did. Or I use the fact that animals, we’re as Americans, but even worldwide, we are living with other species. We’re inviting all of our, we’re inviting our pets into our beds, into our houses. Never before have we been in this kind of a place where they are part of our family. And so we must communicate with a different species, one that doesn’t have the same language that we do. What a gift this is. And so using some of the things that are true, like an animal is really geared toward what they love to do, and then it’s never worked to them.
So I have a shepherd, a German Shepherd, and he wants to shepherd all the time and he’s intelligent, he’s smart, and I got to be on top of that. And then I have a little three legged foster pup and he’s a completely different. I know he’s so cute. His name is Mason. So each of them have to be dealt with for their gifts. Now think about this as leadership. If I said every dog must mind a certain way, or everybody has to do it my way or this way now, do we have rules of the house? Absolutely. You wait, and you’re invited into the house. And it’s so funny, because when Kingston is my big German Shepherd, he weighs, you know, with his all tense ready to part pouch, and the other little guy on three legs is hoppy. He’s like, can’t wait to get in. So they’re different personalities completely. And they both are following my rule. And I have to deal with each of them in a unique, wonderful way. And I think that teaches so much in leadership. If you look at it and say, my people must toe the line, okay?
There are basic guidelines or rules are things that are non negotiable, right. Inside leadership, inside an organization, non negotiable. On the other hand, if I really am paying attention to the unique gifts of each of the people on my team, or each of the people, even in a herd, a herd of horses, there will be a leader. And there will be like, if you want to teach a young horse, how to behave. You put it in with a mare, which is a female horse, because that female horse is going to tell you what the rules are. And I think that’s a great idea for teams, that you match up people with someone else, and they can share all the best things. And then the new person can teach that old mare something too. It’s a brilliant way that animals have been doing it for, I don’t know, all of time.
Nicole: Right, right, right. Okay, so I love everything that you’ve shared. So I’m going to repeat it back and make sure everybody caught it. But what what Shawna is talking about here is that when you have teams, the leader that helps their team get mastery, they figure out what their unique gifts are. And then they figure out what the different personalities are that they have, and begin dealing with them, specifically based on their giftings. And their personality. You do lay down the rules, there are some things that are non negotiable. And then you start a mentoring program. So a lot of really good information in that little bit that you just shared.
So I want to ask you real quickly, when you think about, you know, things that are non negotiable, and about, you know, that mayor that lays down the law, I’ve got a couple ideas about how I help leaders, you know, set up like structure so that we all stay safe. We can color inside the lines, there are places where I’ll give you permission to color outside lines or, or to act outside of the non negotiables. But you have to ask permission. That’s usually what I teach leaders is teach people to ask permission. But what are some of the things that you find are non negotiable that leaders need to get in place? What do you think?
Shawna: Great questions, all. And what a gift you are to your listeners to listen and then repeat. So that they’re, they’re learning it twice, so you’re a gift, you’re a gift. When you when you look at non negotiables, there’s not a ton in my mind, because I’m very much into allowing people to be brilliant. And so if I were to say that the non negotiables are not for my team as much as they are for me, then I’m modeling the non negotiables. And I’m not laying down the law. Because the challenge with so many leaders is they say one thing and do something else.
Nicole: Yes.
Shawna: So, the the non negotiables for me are if I’m insisting that my people are learners and seekers and bring their best selves, but I’m not learning or seeking, like leaders, some leaders will bring in you or me a coach for their people and not get coached. Really. I’m like, what does that say? Because with in my world to attain coaching, they have to earn it. They don’t bring me in to work with people who they are trying to fix. They bring me in for people who are really trying to become outstanding or masterful. So usually I start with a leader. And that’s the very best way to do it. So in my mind, it’s non negotiable for you not to do what you want your folks to do. What you want your team to do. So that’s probably the top one. And then a couple of things that are just tools. If we say that we’re going to watch, it’s non negotiable to to be unkind or to be what is it called if you’re.
Nicole: Be compassionate.
Shawna: Yeah, compassionate is vitally important. However, we all have bad days. And so on a bad day, here’s the thing that that we have to look at. That’s why it’s hard to say it’s non negotiable. You If you’ve just had really bad news or something terrible has happened, you’ll bite other people. See in the animal kingdom, animals don’t hurt you and they don’t hurt each other unless they’re hurt-ing. So if you’ve got an animal that is startled, scared or hurt, watch out, it will bite you, kick you, it will do anything it can to prevent preserve itself. Well, humans are very similar to this. So if you have somebody on your team, and they are biting at you, or they’re rough, or they say something unkind, if you could just stop for a second. Now, this is everyone in the world, your husband, your wife, your your significant, whoever it is, and they bite at you.
You’ve got to stop and go, boom, something’s off. Something’s up, there hurting. Now think about this little, little nugget that I’m giving to the world that that you have to stop and say, because what happens if somebody you go how was your day? Well, it’s terrible. Wow, you’re being a, you know. Look at you coming in and ruining my day. It’s all about you. But if you say how was your day, and they go, it was terrible. Stop, take a breath and say, what happened? Because it’s about them. So, animals teach us that really, it’s hurtful people, here’s a big lesson are hurting. Rarely are people hurtful, just because.
Nicole: Yeah. And I love what you’re talking about. I would equate it to, you know, this thing where Shawna just said, you know, somebody is ugly, or comes out a little too strong. You know, it was terrible. It right there. That’s where you exercise what what I would I’m sure Shawna, you would call too, emotional intelligence.
Shawna: Yes.
Nicole: Okay. This is not about me, this is not about anything I’ve said or done. It is the fact that this person is hurting. So they’re, their emotions are stuck, you know, down the feelings scale, as I like to say they’re in, you know, frustration. They’re in angst, they’re in fear something is going on. And the best thing you can do to help an employee like that, is to listen to them. So I’m going to mark that down as like one of the best gifts you can give anybody is listening in your leadership toolbox. Absolutely. So everybody write this down, are you writing this down? Okay, remember to go back and listen to write it down later, okay, which is you must go first, you must model what you expect from others.
And then number two, a non negotiable would be to listen to your people and show emotional intelligence. So I love that. Now, you you mentioned this thing about you know, you have to do what you expect others to do. And a big part of the work that I do, Shawna is around integrity. And I think people are a little delusional around integrity. But I think that’s what you’re talking about right there is that leaders have to have really amazing integrity to get their people to follow them and to, you know, help them move the organization forward. So what are your thoughts around integrity and how we’re doing out there in the leadership space?
Shawna: You are leading right along I, whoever’s listening to you is, is getting so much gift, it’s so many gifts, I have a odd take on integrity, and.
Nicole: Okay, I love it, I want to hear it.
Shawna: And the reason I do is because it’s something I believe you cannot say of yourself. So a leader, in my mind is about the I ams. Now in the world I am is a huge, huge thing. There’s a lot of research, and it’s biblical. God was I am the great I AM. So even if you don’t believe this, when you when you call yourself, I am something you are setting in motion that you will be that. And so the good I ams are I am honest, I am strong, I am compassionate. Words that are actually action words. You can also I am yourself badly. I am tired, I am overwhelmed. And your whole psyche the whole world believes you, right? So be careful with what you say I am.
And you can’t say I am integrity. It doesn’t work, I am Integris. So integrity is a byproduct of who you are. And so when somebody a company says we have integrity, really? Until you don’t deliver when you say. So I’m going to make you’re making yourself a liar right off the bat. Or a leader says integrity is the most important thing to me, until they bite someone because they’re hurting or until they don’t do what they say they’re going to do because guess why. They’re human. So saying that integrity is so important to you or that you have high integrity is a in my mind a recipe for failure.
And there was an interesting story, I belong to a, I took this all of this leadership. I’ve done so much research on myself and I I took a nine day off site leadership, women’s leadership class. We had to show up with a backpack, everything to spend the night outside $300 and a passport. Okay, I cannot share with you all that we went through. But we did do one exercise. There were like 90 women. And we had to come up with a mission statement that we all agreed on. And so the rules were any word, we threw out all these words, tons and tons of words.
But if even one person did not want the word inside the mission statement, it got thrown out. Now think about this, 90 women. So everybody’s throwing out things that I loved. You know what I mean? Like belief and things that I thought were so important to a mission statement, one person would say, no, if I’m offended by that, or whatever, we live in that world, right? And throw out throw out. So integrity came up. And they were all like, of course, we’re going to add integrity. And I went, nope. Now 89 pairs of eyes glared at me. You know, it’s like.
Nicole: What is she talking about?
Shawna: Yeah, do you not have integrity? Do you not want it to be in our mission statement? How can, I go because we cannot be integrity. Now it it’s what someone else will say about the way we perform, the way we act the way we live. So here was what was really interesting. I went, didn’t we just say that if even one person that we would throw it out? So they went on? And guess what? Women came up to me and afterwards and said, you need to change your mind. And I went, aren’t you being out of integrity? Over and over, they didn’t see. They wanted it in the mission statement. And I thought, if any word should not be in a mission statement, its integrity.
So forgive me because I know hundreds of people right now we’re driving or in, you know, on the thing going, we’ve got integrity in our deal. But take a look at it. Maybe it needs to be revised. Because if your clients, customers and team, I want my team to say, Shawna lives in integrity. And then they give me a little bumble room when I’m when I’m not perfect. And when I make mistakes, and when I bite or when I’m slightly late, or I didn’t listen, because all of those things are out of integrity, right?
Nicole: Absolutely.
Shawna: So they give me some grace. And I would rather have grace than to be standing on the hill of integrity. Did that make sense?
Nicole: Yeah, and I’m just gonna layer on top of it for everybody because you may be upset as as she said, because you know, you’ve got integrity all all up in your mission statement. But here’s how, here’s how I would like add to the genius that you just laid down is what when I’m teaching about integrity because I don’t know if we’ve shared this with each other Shawna, but I have my own coaching methodology that I work people through. It’s called SHINE because I’m, you know, vibrant. So the first thing is self assessment. And I don’t know if you heard her say, I have spent hours and hours working on myself figuring out what’s up with me. That self assessment when she went on this did you say nine days?
Shawna: Nine days offsite? No phone. Pure leadership.
Nicole: Well, you said passport, so then now my inner traveler wants to know, where did, can you tell where you went?
Shawna: No, I can’t.
Nicole: Alright, can you email me, text me?
Shawna: I would be out of integrity if I did.
Nicole: Anyway, my my inner wanderlust wants to know where on the planet you are, but anywho um, so, you know, the first thing is self assessment. So what what she’s talking about is really, really important people. You, you do have to turn the mirror inward first. All leaders have to turn the mirror inward first and go, what is going on me before I start judging what’s going on out here and you’re fully entitled to assess what’s going on out there, but not till you assess what’s going on in here. That is job number one. The second thing is habits. What she’s also mentioned, is doing great habit work, getting in there cleaning the horse’s stall every morning, cleaning your own stall every morning.
Then the third thing is integrity. And again, I think that this is a very messy subject as Shawna is alluding to, and here’s how I teach it. I say, integrity comes from the root integer, like a whole number. And so if you say you’re somebody with incredible integrity, it means you’re whole. You’re done. You’re fixed. You’re good. There’s perfection. And as we all know, none of us have perfection. And here’s the thing about integrity. Just like Shawna says it comes and it goes. So you are a person who sometimes has integrity.
And the silly example I tell is like, I don’t know. Has anybody out there ever been on a diet before? Shawna, have you ever been on this thing called a diet before? Have you ever experienced this phenomenon? Since third grade Nicole Greer’s been dieting. So anyway, you know, they told me I need a lifestyle change. I’m like, I know. But anyway, so, you know, if I say to Shawna, hey, friend, I’m going on a diet but then the next time she sees me, I have like, you know, a cookie hanging out of my mouth. Am I out of integrity? Now, a lot of people will be like, no, you can have a cookie.
Well, no, I really can’t. If I declare, if I declare, I’m going to not have sugar anymore. That’s part of my diet or whatever. So, I lose integrity for a moment. But then the next moment when I lay the cookie down, I’m back in integrity, you know. So it comes and goes, it’s really a function of how, you know strong you believe in what you say you’re going to do and how you can you can hold to it. And like you said, we get tired. We bite people we know all the things you rattled off. So integrity comes and goes, and if you want to claim it, boy, you know, you got to be perfect. That’s really hard.
Shawna: Nice. You’re doing hard work.
Nicole: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And you are too, I celebrate what you’re doing. All right. And so the other thing I wanted to say about what you said was a mission statement. So you know, mission statements, they’re great if you use them. They’re not so great if you just hang them on the wall and don’t talk about them. So I’m curious, in your work, working with leaders? How do you how do you bring mission statements into play? And do you maybe because, you know, hey, everybody, Shawna is a great storyteller, wonderful speaker. Maybe you could share with me like how a mission statement might have affected a company you work with, or somebody you know, who’s really living one. I think that’s a great place to visit is this idea of a mission statement.
Shawna: Well, if the idea of it is fine, and I think doing the work of it is good, because it makes everyone think, but most of the time when I’ve worked with companies that have one, or we’ve been working, that’s not my lane, because I don’t know if I completely believe in them. And I’ll tell you why. I was working with five male leaders, they were all the top CEO, CFO, Head of Marketing, HR, and gaming, it was a it was a gaming company. And I said, okay, tell me what your what your vision is, and tell me what you’re about. And they, they all sat there, they’d all done the work with another company on their mission statement. And they couldn’t come up with one of the edicts on it right, that we will be a company that does, and I went, okay, well, what are you going to do, since you don’t know what it is.
One of them got up, walked down the hall, took it off the wall and brought it back into the room. So here’s what I got to say, they’d done the work. All of them kind of knew it. See, it’s not living, it’s not a living document to them, at least, they went down hall and guess what the one they forgot was? Teamwork. And guess where we were having some troubles? They were living it, and yet everyone says teamwork, or people are most important thing. And I find that the companies don’t live it. So in my work, because I work more individuals, like I said, leaders, or they’ll bring me into work with the individual. I do do work with leadership teams. And it mostly it’s facilitating their growth. It’s less important that you have this mission, but that you know, your intention. And you also understand the shared goals.
So you know, we talked about a vision and then a mission, like the vision is going to Mars and the mission to Mars is how to get there. I mean, I’ve gone over all of it. Because once again, as you are, I am a lifelong learner, constantly getting myself coached. I think that if you focus on that, that you might get lost in the day to day intentions, that will get you where you’re going. So where are you going? And if it’s to impact this many people, or if it’s to have this stellar reputation, then I can work on that daily. But other than that, I’m not exactly certain. It’s just like integrity. I can’t live in it on a moment to moment basis.
Nicole: Yeah, well I love what you’re saying about a mission has to have intention behind it. I have a saying that, you know, all great leaders get coached and I couldn’t agree with that more. Not just because I am a coach, but I mean, I as well am coached by at least three people right now, Dan, and, and Steve, are my coaches right now. And, you know, they’re always turning me back to you know, why are you doing this? You know, because I think getting in touch with your why or your intention between behind what you give attention is important. And that’s what Anne Sturette would say. My, one of my one of my coaches, she’s like, you know, you can have all the, you know, you know, that old saying, intentions are.
Shawna: You judge other people by their intentions and we judge no, we judge other people by their actions, but we judge ourselves by our intentions.
Nicole: Oh that’s a good one. Everybody write that down. Say it again. Everybody write that down. Say it again.
Shawna: We judge other people by their actions but ourselves by our intentions.
Nicole: That’s right. That’s right. And then I think the one I’m trying to think of though Shawna is the one that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Shawna: Yes, paved with good intentions.
Nicole: Right. And so the mission statement, I think, is valuable, but it’s only as valuable as the intention or attention that leaders give it. You know, I think that’s really important and that they that they also understand the behaviors that exemplify the mission. To your point about I judge others by their actions, action, and myself by my intention is because like, do you know what that mission statement looks like? If it’s lived out, like, could you could you see it in a movie reel? You know, can you see the action behind it? So I think that’s, I think what’s really genius.
Shawna: And to stack on you, if you looked at many mission statements, and they’re so long, and because no one wants to give away anything. You know, we want honesty, and we want excellence. And we want this and we want that. And so they get so convoluted that people can’t live all of them. And so getting it really specific, I did some work. God years ago, when we were really I was really looking at what was I about? How did I want to live and work my business. And I did a series, they did a series of words that became powerful to me. And the word that I got was magnificence. And so I went, what does that look like? Feel like? What is it to me? And so this is how easy it was in my life I went is what I’m doing magnificent.
So I looked at your materials, by the way, and you you open it up and you look at it, you go crap, that’s magnificent. If you don’t, if I looked at it and went no, not magnificent, throw it out. Is is my, how do I get more and more magnificent? So then it suddenly instead of a mission statement, it’s a filter. Is this excellent? Am I doing excellent work? Or in my case, magnificent work? Am I producing good, whatever that is? And then I have a filter that I’m living my life through. And if it isn’t, that’s a yes or no. That wasn’t magnificent. Drop it out. And it really helped for my team. I just would ask, do you think that’s magnificent work? And sheepishly, you know, well, no. And what is magnificent look like? Error free, beautiful color, whatever it might be?
Nicole: Well, I think you’re magnificent is my vibrant. It’s the same animal, just a little different variety, maybe different pattern. But I think we’re talking about the same thing. Absolutely. And for all of you listeners, I do have a resource called creating a mission statement for work and life. It’s not mine. I don’t know Shawna, have you ever heard of Laurie Beth Jones before? Do you know who that is?
Shawna: As a matter of fact, I know you’re using her work because of the water and the fire and wind. Yeah. If I can turn a story, and this helps your audience, I think as well, because we think we are one way. And we do this self analysis and data data. And I had read her work. And I done this. So there’s four elements fire, water, wind and earth. And I read the book and I was so excited by it. And I went, oh, I’m water. I know I’m water.
Nicole: No way. No way.
Shawna: Because water is so nurturing, and it moves around obstacles. And I I’m a Pisces, which was a water sign. So in the book, Laurie Jones said, and what’s her middle name Laurie?
Nicole: Beth.
Shawna: Beth Jones said you must ask at least three or four people what they think you are and don’t say, right? So I had done all this work and, and I you know, I asked my best friend and she goes oh, your fire and I went whoa.
Nicole: Your best friend is right.
Shawna: And then I asked my other, my mastermind at the time, and she went, oh, you’re air. I asked my mother. And by the way, I’m arguing all of them. Yes. I saw fire as destroying and too hot and, and you couldn’t control it and all the bad things about fire. And one friend of mine looked at me and said, you know, Shawna, you’re looking at water like it’s the only wonderful thing and fire as it’s the only negative thing but you know, water drowns and floods. And she she made me look at it in a different way. Because even if I’m fire I wanted to be water. And I think as a leader, for your Nicole, when you get these, I get leaders and they they see themselves one way and our job is to ask enough questions like, you picked up that I was fire immediately. I’m a redhead and you know.
Nicole: You could be a water redhead but you’re not. You’re total fire.
Shawna: But I that was how, back in the old days, how delusional I was. So if I remember that, that my leaders are also that delusional sometimes going into this.
Nicole: That’s right. And you know, we’re saying the word delusional. And I do think that’s a great word actually. Because you, you’re seeing one thing, and it’s actually another. And so I, you know, I call that delusion, like a blind spot, we just have a little blind spot where we can’t see you know, who we are. And I think that this is an absolutely essential. So we’re actually we went back to self assessment, everybody, you know, so the shine coaching methodology, we have self assessment, habit word, integrity, the next thing is next right steps. And then there’s this idea of managing your energy. But I want to finish what I was gonna say about the mission statement. And then I think I might segue over to the elements for a moment, since you’ve probably picked a lot of curiosity, Shawna.
But that mission statement work from Laurie Beth Jones is how you can have one sentence because if you remember what Shawna said, she said, most mission statements are really, really long. And if you have a really long mission statement is probably got vision in it. That’s my guess. Or like she said, wou want everything and you can’t have everything. So a mission statement, you can have one sentence and so I can send you that document by Laurie Beth Jones, I will be glad to do that for you. In fact, I think we’ll get it put in the show notes. And so my mission statement is Nicole’s on a mission to energize, impact and influence people to lead a more vibrant life through discovering what is possible and making it probable.
That’s it. That’s what I do every day. And so it’s a very clear picture. And then I want to just say this real quick, more genius from Laurie Beth Jones, as she says that if you don’t do what you should be doing, or you’re overwhelmed, because you asked me earlier, Are you overwhelmed, is that you use that mission statement as a harness to put you in the things you’re supposed to be doing in a sword to cut off the things you should not be doing. So mission statement, I wish companies had a one sentence mission statement. What are your thoughts on the one sentence Shawna?
Shawna: I agree. Mine is one sentence, yours is one sentence. And even shorter. I mean, I am. I am alive to serve others. So if I know that, then it’s easy. I serve them as a coach, I serve them to speak. I’m a foster to dogs. So I’m on, I was put on the earth to serve. And I get that. And I serve in lots of different elements in my life. So one sentence makes it really easy.
Nicole: Yeah, and thank you for serving my listeners today. I’m really, really grateful. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, so when when you when you heard about the elements? I’m curious, what, what drew you into that? What made you read, you know, read the book, you know, a lot of people collect books, they don’t read them, you know, they have good intentions. So what drew you into the elements in the first place?
Shawna: It has been such a long time since I did that work. I’m gonna say decades. So I’m not exactly certain how it opened. But she was very popular decades ago. I mean, it was all out. She was on the bestseller list. And I, she also did Jesus CEO, if I’m not mistaken.
Nicole: She did. She did. Again, like 14 others.
Shawna: Anyway, so I, I just dug her. And I was just looking. I was also studying to become a coach. And I had masterminds and that was an interesting thing. And so I don’t know how I stumbled upon it. And I think also like, I read the artists way. And there’s a book that I would recommend for yes, yeah, it’s fabulous, but also one that is so unknown. And it’s called the Arbiter Institute. And it’s called Leadership and Self Deception. And it is brilliant. It really is brilliant. The work is brilliant. And I stumbled upon these. And I think when the, I think when the student is ready, the teacher appears. That’s, that’s that analogy. And the teacher could be a book, and the book lead you to something else.
And ultimately, I think I realized that I a guide, like every good story in the history of the world, there is a Yoda or there’s a Gandalf or there is your coach that helps you see things from a different way. And when I was much younger, I belonged to a women’s mentoring program. And you had to apply. And you had to have a business plan and show them your financials. And then these business women would be the mentors of us. And I got an amazing woman, and she was a pilot and a business consultant. And I remember asking her, I said, why are you doing this for free since you make so much money doing it?
And she says, because when I coach my clients and she didn’t coach them as much as consulting, she was an MBA and consultant. She said, they don’t do what I tell him. And I figured you would. And I went right then, I was I’m going to do everything you told me. And they no longer have the program. But I also realized that as I went along, I wasn’t done in the year that we had together and she I said, I don’t want this to end. And she says, I tell you what, if you will do this, this, this, this, I will continue. Talk about challenging me. And it was things I didn’t think I could do. And I did them all, so that we could work together another year.
So I think if you’re determined, if somebody is listening, and they’re determined to be the best that they can be, and why are they listening to a podcast? I mean, bravo, bravo right there, then, what are they filling their minds with? And then who is their guide that can help them? And I think that’s an individual thing, like, where do you find a coach. Well you listen to things like this, if they stumbled upon you, they probably want you. Or if they they dig my energy, they may want me. And I think that that’s part of the the evolution of you and you have different coaches as you evolve inside your industry as well.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, so I just want to throw out the two books, again, Artists Way at Work, I got Julia Cameron up here on the shelf. Oh, and it’s like towards the beginning of the year, folks. And so I just want to tell you that that would be a great thing to pick up right out of the gate. And when you think about the artists way at work, and Julia’s kind of methodology, what what’s your favorite part of that book? What have you found a habit that you still hold on to after reading that book that you find highly valuable?
Shawna: Well, I did her 12 weeks. And this was years ago, when it first, The Artist Way without work came in. And I did the morning pages religiously, for 12 weeks, every morning, she has you do a brain dump. That’s what it’s called. Yeah. And it was so good to get this brain dump. And then after the 12 weeks, I stopped. Well, later, she’s written more books. 10 years later, she never stopped. And why the big aha for me is we build a habit that is really working. And then we go on vacation or something happens or we, we get a promote, something happens and we stop doing what really works. Another thing is to take yourself on an artist date, and I thought, brilliant that you would go out and just look at the world differently. And I thought her work was outstanding. And still is outstanding.
Nicole: Absolutely. Yeah. So get in there think about getting the Artist Way, Artists Way at Work, or the Artists Way, doing the date or doing the morning pages. Absolutely genius. And then of course, the second book, she said was Leadership and Self Deception. Did I get that right? Okay. All right, make sure. Okay, well, Shawna, one of the things that I saw on your website is that, you know, you really help people do three things. And so I wanted to explore this, gain clarity, then retain top talent and get more done.
So tell me a little bit about how leaders can gain clarity. We’ve talked about it some, self assessment, right, like, read these great books, figure out your mission statement, we’ve already covered that. Tweak what you’re doing every day, and, you know, learn to start dealing with your people in a great way. And the non negotiable is you go first, but what other ways do you help people gain clarity? How can a leader get really clear? And what do they need to get clear about? I think I have two questions.
Shawna: I think sometimes where we know what we want generally. And to gain clarity, they have to be specific. And so I overall, what I want is to let’s take something super easy, we’re talking about diets. Overall, I would like to be healthy. That’s that that’s that that’s that? Well, let’s get clear what that means to you. So there’s a series of questions. There’s a series of exploration. So if you’re saying what does it really look like to you? Because I’m really super healthy. And well, then aren’t you happy? Why aren’t you happy? But because I would like to be leaner, and healthier. And so we’ve got to get clear about what that end place is. And not only the end place, but right in this moment. What I dig and love is it’s not just your intention, overall, that mission.
But what’s your intention for this conversation? We just bowled right into the conversation without really knowing. We have a meeting without any clear goal. And so clarity is something that we work on continually. So that’s how I help people get clear. We’re not, usually. Then when you’re talking about retaining top talent, people do not leave this has just been spouted forever. And I know it’s true. They don’t leave because of the job. They leave because the leader and I also believe that there’s nothing you can’t recover from. That generally, you have to change. You have to alter your delivery, you have to alter your intent you have to deliver because people will say well, they’re just a difficult person to work with.
Well, maybe they’re your mirror. And whenever I have somebody say God this person always irritates me or doesn’t listen or they have a such a bad attitude. I’m like they’re your gift as a leader. Now think about that for a minute. People want to get rid of those people, but those people are your gift. And if you can turn that person around, you got some mastery, and you’re going to retain them. And what do I say is oh, and then get more done. And I have to say everything to me is about how we work on tweaking, and the small little tasks that we do continuously to become better and more masterful. And that’s a different question. It’s a question, how can I do this better? Or how can I tweak this, which very few of us ask. We’re just happy to get it done. Move on.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And and so I would say that, you know, earlier Shawna was talking about, you know, who’s the right coach for you. So if you need to get clear about what it is you really want, which I love that question, and you want to keep people engaged, and you want to get more done time management, productivity, efficacy, all those things, Shawna would definitely be the right gal for you. Well, here’s, here’s what I want to ask, we’ve got just a little bit of time left. What are the kind of the common themes that people are struggling with? And how have you helped them? So again, two questions at once, but I know you’re advanced you’re fire, you can handle it. So what are the things you’re seeing that maybe my listeners can relate to? And number two, how have you helped them? What what are the common struggles you’re seeing for leaders out there?
Shawna: As again, beautiful questions. And I think overall, the world is in a place, my leaders, particularly where when will this end? You know, right now, right this minute, because we’re in January of 2022. People are sick, whether it be with on the omniverse, whatever that thing. But they’re just staying home, which means nobody is staffed. And so the people who are actually coming to work are just inundated, overwhelmed, tired. And and so if you’re in that place, where I’m, I don’t know what to do. There’s this oppression that happens inside your brain and your heart. And you’re like, I don’t know, maybe I should just stay home. So I’m seeing that kind of angst, or what is it? What’s a good word for it, that it just is permeating this kind of coloring? How people are feeling about work?
So usually, one tactic would be let’s, let’s not talk about feelings, because feelings are they go in and out quickly. Let’s talk about what are we doing? Or the action? Or what is I think in your SHINE, you have the next step here. So if we looked at that, and said, like people will call their team, leaders call their team, and they go, so how are you feeling? Well, then that just opens the door to I feel overwhelmed. I feel like I’m working too hard. And there’s no break. And what is the leader supposed to say to them? Nothing. You cannot say anything, except I feel your pain. And next thing, you know, you’re both sliding down this deep ditch. So, instead, if the leader would look and say, tell me one good thing that happened to you today? Or tell me what you’re proudest of that you got accomplished.
And suddenly they’re like, what? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, there had to have been something in there. I must have gotten something done today. And if they focus on the one thing that they got done today, and you go bravo, bravo I knew you could next thing, you know, the energy ratchets up, they everything starts to move forward for them. So I’m finding this this kind of deep overwhelm, and that the way for a leader to pull from it is to start asking a different question. And refrain from asking how people feel.
Nicole: I love that. Yeah, it’s really where again, we’re kind of theme for this one, I think, which is attention and intention. Right. So it’s like, where do you focus where you put your intention, your attention? What’s gonna feed you for sure. For sure. Yeah. So I’m trying to think of this guy’s name. Do you know this TED talk this Dr. Joe? Dispenza? Okay. Yeah. So everybody go watch this. I’ll put it in the show notes. But he talks about how your brain works. He’s a chiropractor, but actually studies the brain. And the way he talks about is that, you know, our brain has dendrites and they hook up, you know, and when they hook up, you get a pattern of thinking which can become habitual, you know, the way you always think you can become a worrier, or over, I’m overwhelmed, I’m overwhelmed or part about you know, I’ve hooked these two things together.
Well, his his whole thing is like, you can rip that apart if you want to, and get a new way to think, right, like, this is the new way that I think and so leaders putting that in place where they’re helping their people. And that’s what I meant earlier by, you know, the, you know, the way that you want people to think I want people to think positively. I want people to think optimistically not in not just in terms of creatively, but like I want you to have dendrites that are optimistic pathways. Right? It’s not that I don’t want to know that things are going wrong. But I do want us to celebrate, be grateful, you know, give each other grace. I loved your words You just dropped in there earlier.
Shawna: I want people to give me grace and I’m going to give them grace.
Nicole: That’s right. That’s right. So I love that. Okay, so the last question I have for you for today, and I have so enjoyed being with you and everybody go out and check out Shawna’s website. She’s going to tell us how to find it. But if you were mentoring a single special listener right now, what one last little nugget would you leave them with?
Shawna: I lead a accountability column Monday through Friday at 5:15am Pacific time. I’ve been doing it for like 14 years. I think this is my 15th year of doing it. It’s very effective. Each of the sessions by saying this truth to me, you create your day, by the way you think. And what I think we forget is that we’re creating, we create all of it. I am at the scene of every crime in my life. So I can create something else. Just by the way I think. And so you have that power.
Nicole: I absolutely adore that. Okay, it’s tweetable. Folks, you create your day, by the way you think hashtag Shawna Schuh? All right, fantastic. Well, I have absolutely adored having your positive amazing fiery energy on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. So will you do me a favor? Will you let everybody know if they want to get up with you? They need a coach. They need somebody for accountability. Somebody that will help them. Let’s see. Let me make sure I get it right people that will help gain clarity, retain top talent and get more done. If that’s the gal you need, please reach out to Shawna. Shawna how can everybody find you.
Shawna: You said at the beginning and I’m sure it’s going to be in the show notes. Everything runs through my website. It’s just learning how to spell my name. Right, shawna, S H A W N A and schuh is spelled S C H U H, which is the German. And if you want to get a hold of me directly, it’s Shawna@shawnaschuh.com. And I give a free clarifying call. I just, I spent a half an hour with you. And I give it to everyone who wants it. They just have to schedule it. And one of the reasons I do that is because number one, like you asked earlier, Nicole you said, how do you know what’s going on out there? That’s how I know what’s going on out there. And it’s a gift for me to do my mission which is to serve others.
Nicole: Absolutely. Fantastic. Thank you so much Shawna for bringing on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. It’s been my absolute delight. Thank you so much.
Shawna: Thank you!
Voiceover: Ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her strategies, systems and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email Nicole@nicolegreer.com. And be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at nicolegreer.com.
