Change initiatives are inevitable in any organization or business. Sometimes we are leading the changes and other times we are being asked to join an initiative.
How do we ensure that these changes are embraced and productive for everyone involved?
Our guest, Jake Jacobs, is an expert in change leadership and an author of multiple books on how to make the most of change opportunities. He joins us this week for a deep dive into the common problems organizations encounter when making changes AND concrete steps anyone can take to achieve faster, easier, and better results.
Our conversation covers a wide range of important topics, including:
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How to make it easier for your people to do their best work
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How focusing on continuity will create an environment for successful change
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How to make change part of daily work
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And so much more
Jake has 35 years of experience helping organizations from Fortune 50 companies to national non-profits affect successful org changes. He brings a host of insight and ideas to this episode you won’t want to miss out on. Listen now!
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Jake Jacobs: When we come to the world of change, there are some unique opportunities to make a meaningful difference and the more people that you can find opportunities for, the more successful your change is going to be.
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Vibrant Leadership podcast with leadership speaker and consultant, Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome to the vibrant leadership podcast. My name is Nicole Greer. And today I have Jake Jacobs on the Vibrant Leadership podcast. I’m absolutely delighted and let me read his bio to you. He says that he helps organization teams and individuals make, don’t miss this, monumental change. Not teeny tiny changes, but monumental changes because he’s got two books. You can see them in the background of his bookcase back there. And I’ve got one here, he sent me a goodie. I’m so excited.
So over the past 35 years, he’s worked in 61 Industries. I didn’t even know there were 61 Industries. From high tech to manufacturing, to hospitality to entertainment to financial services. He’s consulted with 96 organizations from the fortune 5o to national nonprofits and community theaters. Oh, I want to do community theater. And he’s supported more than 210,000 people directly on important changes to their businesses. What kind of changes you might be asking? Everything from strategy implementation to culture change to mergers and acquisitions and leadership development. Please welcome Jake. I’m so glad you’re here today.
Jake: Thank you so much, Nicole. I’m delighted to join you.
Nicole: Yeah, it’s great to have you and like we were having a little chit chat before we got started. And I actually went to high school in Toledo, Ohio, and Jake is sitting in Toledo, Ohio. So we have a little Ohio Buckeye moment earlier, which was awesome. So I’m so glad to have a Buckeye on on the on the call.
Jake: I have to admit I have a Michigan ring. So there we go.
Nicole: Oh!
Jake: That for your listeners out there. That’s a big deal. The difference between Ohio and Michigan so I’ll let you keep going. But I felt like we should be authentic on our on our podcast here.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Well, people from Ohio are Buckeyes. Like, that’s the national deal or the the statewide deal. But I will tell you, Michigan, Ohio, where the biggest rivals in the world. So I noticed how Jake’s like, oh, I’m from Michigan, you know, we got to make sure we got the right category. He does not want you to put him in the Ohio State bucket. I’m just saying. Okay, that’s cool. Yeah, awesome. So down here, we have like, Duke and Chapel Hill, you know. These little rivalries, they’re everywhere and it’s fighting words, you know? Okay, so, enough of that. Tell me a little bit, Jake, about how you would define leadership. You know, this is the Vibrant Leadership podcast. I like to get your opinion on what leadership is. Will you give us your personal definition?
Jake: Yeah, I think leadership is the other pole. The other perspective, from followership. And followership, is something I think that gets little attention from people. There’s a buddy of mine, Ira Chaleff, who has written on followership. And so you’d say, well, why am I talking about followership? When you asked me about leadership? Fair question. I believe that they require each other, and that good leaders require good followers and good followers require good leaders. So for me, at the end of the day, a leader is someone who supports their followers, in being able to achieve their full potential.
And when we’re talking about organizations and businesses, then that means that the organization or business needs to achieve its full potential. And, and that could be measured in many different ways. It could be market share, it could be revenue, it could be top line, bottom line, it could be the kind of place that you’re proud to call your own, where you are pleased to work there. And you would love you know, I worked once at Ford, and there was a woman who stood up in a large group meeting and she said, you know, the way this place is run, I can’t wait for my son to work here. And so that kind of leadership counts a lot, not just the bottom line, but the bottom line and beyond. So potential is what I think it’s about and supporting people and reaching their full potential.
Nicole: I love that definition. And I love the fact that you told that little vignette in there about how that woman said this is the kind of place I could recommend to my son. I mean, that’s that’s absolutely huge to get people’s endorsement, that the leadership and the way that things are run are so amazing. So love your definition there now. You are an expert in change. Why did you go down this bunny trail of like, I’m gonna give all of my research time all of my work to overdo this thing called change? Why is why is it so important for leaders to focus on change?
Jake: Yeah, so my my story is probably like everybody else who’s listening? I well, I mean, in in some way. I tend to bar in college, so maybe not everybody tended bar. But when I tended bar, there were people who complained about working there. Now, that’s the part I think everybody’s got in common. Have you ever worked somewhere where people complained about working there? Yeah, raise your right hand. So when I was in the bar, yes, Nicole’s got her hand up. So when I was in the bar, I decided I could do an independent study. And my first consulting project was at the bar, Dooley’s of Ann Arbor.
And I said, you know, I think it could be better than it is. And I talked to the owner of the bar about this, and I was going to do some interviews and a questionnaire and, you know, a few things and a couple of meetings. And he said, that’s fine. Jacobs, do whatever you want, just don’t F anything up. So that was my first consulting contract the buyer, I don’t know whether you want to call it low or high. But that was my first consulting contract. And it happened because I thought things could be better.
And I thought other people thought things could be better. So it started with me, my consulting career started at 21. It’s all I’ve ever done. And I’m always fascinated by how organizations run and how processes run, and how whether an organization makes it easier or harder for people to reach that potential and do their best work. And so I have committed my professional life, to helping people find ways to be able to bring their best to work at work.
Nicole: Hmm, I think this is an excellent calling that you have on your life, because I do think you’re right, everybody has the story of this place could be better. And you know, I think some leaders get offended, get their ego in check. And they’re like, everybody just put their head down and work, you know, but the leader that hires a 21 year old bartender to do his first consulting gig is enlightened. I mean, I would have thought that person vibrant, because they’re like, let’s give this kid a shot. Maybe he can help me, because what’s the truth about working in a good environment? What’s the truth about working in a healthy place, Jake?
Jake: Well, I mean, we love it. We all love it. And and you know, there are people I do not believe there’s anybody who wakes up and says, let me go to work and do a lousy job today. I think everybody wants to do their best. And then often, systems and and processes and organizations get in the way of that, which is why I think it’s so important, that change is always about improvement. And so the subtitle to this book that I wrote, Leverage Change is eight ways to achieve faster, easier, better results. And so that term of results was really purposeful. So in one way, yes, the book is about change.
But change is just a means to an end. What we’re after are faster, easier, better results, and whatever those results may be, are fair game. So getting alignment around those results, and having people clear about them. One of the levers, I’ve got these levers, and they each address a common problem. So there’s eight levers, Nicole and eight common problems. One of the problems is that people don’t know enough to make good decisions. And so what happens is that people end up making uninformed decisions or less informed decisions. And they end up getting in trouble, whether it’s in the organization or in the marketplace. And so the the lever I came up with is create a common database that, you know, if you’ve got a secret that somebody else needs to know, it’s your responsibility to share that.
That it’s not helpful that in fact, information is power. I just believe it should be shared widely in organizations rather than held on to and, and protected. And so when you talk about the kind of place that people work, they want to be smart, they want to make a contribution, they want to make a difference. And finding opportunities to do that is actually another lever finding opportunities for people to make a meaningful difference. So I believe that organizations hold great promise for us as people who work there and work with them. And the only question is, can we make them better? So even this book, that if you’ve got an approach to change, that’s great. This is not like, you’ve got to drop what you’re doing.
And you got to start doing what I’m talking about. This is a supplement to the work you’re already doing. So if you’ve got a model, you’ve got an approach that’s worked for you. This is about turbocharging that model. And so it’s always about making a good thing better. And I think that’s really important when it comes to organizations and change. A lot of folks say, No, no, it’s like my way or the highway. This is The way it’s got to be, and I think, yeah, there are many right answers. And the end of the day, we all want to be proud of the place that we call our workplace.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. So I just got a little flashback. So we were just talking about, we both have our master’s degree in organizational development. Now, I mentioned that not to brag, but to say, if you don’t have your masters, and you’ve thought about it, you should so do it. Because you start studying stuff you really care about. Like I had to take anatomy. And so while I was excited about knowing all the parts of my body, I don’t really need to know what that little bump on my femur is all about, right, like, so it doesn’t matter to me. But when I first started studying change, which is a huge part of organizational development, they introduced me to the original change model.
Now, if you have better information from your alma mater, Jake jump in here, but they told me that there’s this guy named Kurt Lewin. And Kurt said, here’s the change model, you know, you have a frozen organization, meaning that like you have the current status quo, then you unfreeze your current organization, and then you refreeze it with things in place. And so the reason why I’m mentioning it is because I think this book, I’m holding it up right now, Leverage Change. I think this book is part of the unfreeze, like these are the eight things you do to unfreeze what you’re doing. Do I have that right?
Jake: No, you do and and Kurt Lewin has a special place in my heart because my, he was my mentors, mentor, mentor. 3 generation, but Ron Lippitt, who taught at the University of Michigan and Kathy Dannemiller, who is my mentor who I wrote the acknowledgments was there in spirit with me as, as I wrote the book. So absolutely, I learned the same things that you did. And I think that that unfreezing is really about creating a new, that’s where the future comes from, is that that space between where you’ve been and where you’re going, and I believe, Nicole, that like the greatest act for anybody in an organization is the act of creation. That starting from wherever you are, and making it different, is often one of the most challenging things. So yes, we we went to school at different universities, and we went to the same school. Absolutely.
Nicole: Yeah. So I did begin to the eight levers. I know you touched on one. But I would really like to dig into the eight. Can we do that?
Jake: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Nicole: Okay. All right. Let’s start with chapter one. Jake, let’s talk about pay attention to continuity. Will you share that with me what that lever is?
Jake: Absolutely. So the problem that this deals with, because each of these levers addresses the problem is that there’s too much change. And organizations suffer from change fatigue. And you know, there’s another reorganization coming around the corner and people get exhausted, they’re stressed, they’re anxious, they’re not no good things come from too much change. And so most people who deal with change will talk about it. They’ll focus on it. They’ll say, that’s the objective.
And that’s where they’ll pay attention. I take a different approach. I believe that we need to pay attention to continuity as much as we do change. And what that means is that the things that you’ve done right in the past ought to continue, that the things that have been working for you are going to work for you again, that in fact, rather than doing less change, which would be many people’s approach to this, if there’s too much do less of it. I don’t think that that’s the answer, I think you need to do the amount of change that the organization requires to succeed. But if you pay attention to continuity, people have a lot more confidence, they have a lot more conviction.
They have a lot of the tools, knowledge and abilities that they need to continue doing what they’ve already done. And if this is not about wholesale change, I mean, in any organization undergoing a huge amount of change, you will find most things stay the same. You know, where I work, who I work with what my core job is, like, these things are all the same. And so I have this saying, Nicole, that, I think with continuity people have firm ground to stand on to take a leap into the unknown of the future. And having that firm ground is absolutely critical. And I think if more people more leaders paid attention to continuity, people would be much more receptive to change.
Nicole: I love what you’re saying. And I think I’m getting like a little hit about another kind of concept that I think is really important is you know, when you talk about change, to talk about it, you know, like as a as a positive building on that firm foundation. You’re talking about. So I also learned about this thing called appreciative inquiry, which is another one our Ohio friends you know over there in Case Western with, with David Cooperrider. But but there’s this whole thing out there y’all go Google it appreciative inquiry.
But it helps you appreciate the quality of the people that are already in the organization. What they’ve done in the past and how they have the skills and talents to do the change. So just keep doing what you’re doing. We’re just going to do a little bit more here. Change it up a little bit, right. Yeah, so I love that. Absolutely love that. Okay, so let’s talk about the second lever. The second lever in chapter two, you talk about think and act as if it were the future now. I love that. I’m all about visioning. So talk about that a little bit.
Jake: Right. So this one deals with the problem of change taking too long. And, you know, if there’s somebody out there who’s a leader who doesn’t believe this is a problem, it’s like, yes, everybody would like it to happen faster. So I believe that the problem is a flawed paradigm, I think that the way that most of us think about the future is it’s something that’s going to occur at a later point in time. It’s out there, it’s disconnected from us, and we have to wait for it. So if we have to wait for it, it’s gonna take a while. So that’s where this thing can act as if the future where now comes from. If I can get some image, it doesn’t even matter how big the image is, or how clear it is.
Some image of what better looks like for me in a particular situation, and say, if I were in that future today, how would I be thinking? I would I be acting? Who would be involved in this decision? Who would I be talking to? What information would I be looking for? What criteria would we use for our decision? Like I’ve had clients where they had a situation where they were trying to win, market share in a new sales region. And the executives spent the morning arguing about one of two solutions. And they had wanted to be a more participative organization. This was like a core value that they had. And I said, well, if you were that more participative organization now, right? Not that you’re getting there, but you’re they’re here today, how would you deal with this problem? And they said, well, we would bring the salespeople in, you know.
And I said, okay, what’s stopping us? And they said, nothing. I say, great. So everybody who is in the office came in the meeting in the afternoon, everybody who wasn’t got on the phone and was on a teleconference. And they thought through together what the answer was in, in living that future today, they actually came up with a third answer a better answer than either the two they’d been debating. And it happened because they didn’t wait to become this participative organization. They didn’t wait till next week to schedule a time when these people could come into the meeting. It’s about immediacy, and not settling for waiting for change to occur, but reaching out grabbing hold of that future and bringing it into the present and living it today.
Nicole: I love that. That’s pure genius, y’all. So you got to get the book. Let’s tell them what the book is again, right? Leverage Change. Yeah, so it’s on Amazon, I promise. Okay. So I want to just tell you a quick story, if I can, Jake, would that be okay? When when I was in my coaching, training, which I got that before I even got my college degree done, I didn’t get I didn’t get myself educated till I was 48. It just wasn’t in the cards, you know. So I just was a worker bee a long, long time. And I first thing I did was I said, I’m gonna go get this coaching certificate. And Dave Cowan was my master coach, and he did this exercise that you might listen to this and think it sounds a little cheesy, but I would invite you to have like an open mind for a moment. He said, I’ve got this piece of tape on the floor. That’s this piece of tape on the floor. And he’s like, everybody get on the left side of the piece of the tape. And he said, now you are, what you are and who you are on this side of the tape. And then he said, I want you to pick something you want to change about yourself.
And so we’re like, you know, and so first thing always comes to Nicole Greer’s mind, I want to be skinny. So that was my first thing. A few listeners out there, but like, that’s the thing for me, you know, five foot tall. It’s a challenge. So I certainly want to be healthy. You know, that’s the better way to look at it. I want to be healthy. And so he said, now imagine if you could just step over the line and be healthy. And so we’re like, okay, and he’s like, okay, now here’s what it’s gonna take. It’s just going to take one action immediately on the other side of the line to be what you say you want to be. And so what is the action you’re going to take once you’ve crossed over the line? So I was like, I’m gonna eat vegetables and workout. And so, you know, those are the answers. And so he’s like, okay, so make that your first action, the minute you step over the line. Yeah. And like, it’s that simple people. So I love that story.
Jake: It’s a new paradigm. It’s a different way to see the world. And as soon as you see it that way, my experience Nicole has been, you can never not see it that way again. So when you get people thinking and acting as if the future we’re now in an organization, when you look around left and right, people are doing business in new ways, because they are thinking and acting as if the future we’re now. So it becomes a virtuous cycle where I look left and right, and people are doing business differently.
So I can’t say, this isn’t for real. I can’t say this isn’t gonna take hold, because it’s taking hold all around me. So when you step over that line, and you say, wait a minute, I’m I’m choosing to be healthy, that choice and tying it to an immediate action, not waiting, not planning, not saying you’re going to get to it next week. But immediately, I hope you ran over to the relish tray on the other side of that paint, and you grabbed a carrot or a piece of celery, and you said there, I’m started. But that notion of immediate action, I believe that change can happen immediately. And it’s because of this lever.
Nicole: Absolutely. I think that’s a great one. Okay, number three is design it yourself. Tell us about that one.
Jake: Right. So this one is where people reject your change approach. So a lot of times when you’re a leader, people will say, well, you may have done it in the last place you worked, but you haven’t done it here. Or you haven’t done it in our team, or you haven’t done it in our division, or you haven’t done it. As soon as people say, well, you haven’t done it, then it’s time for this lever called design it yourself. And design it yourself says that your change approach you need to own. It needs to be crafted based on your expertise, your knowledge, your experience, and your organization and its culture and what’s worked before. A lot of times, things that people have done in organizations to change have been really successful. And so building that into the design at yourself lever is really critical.
So designing in yourself says take the best of the past and present along with your compelling future and come up with a purpose a meaningful purpose for why not just that we’re going to up our market share, we’re going to get better return on our investment. But what is the underlying meaning that you have for your change effort? Is it really about serving your new customers in innovative and creative ways that our competition hasn’t thought of yet? Well, now that’s a good purpose, it gets to the why behind it, and outcomes and roadmap, all of these need to be done by you and for you. And the best way to do it is to ask for help. So as leaders start to design this, pulling together, what I call a design team are a microcosm of the organization and thinking through what the best path for us to get from where we are to where we need to be, is following this design it yourself lever.
Nicole: Hmm, I love that. Okay, so I got another like little hit from college. So the the model that I loved when we were studying change was John Kotter’s model for change. And John Kotter has these eight steps, and one of the steps is build a guiding coalition. And I kind of here, this design it yourself falls into that, you know, that guiding coalition. Helps the leader guide the change, right? And the thing about inviting people’s opinion, instead of resisting it is is going to get things moving faster.
So I think that’s total genius. So you got to read that chapter to figure out how do you let them design it yourself? Because I know there’s like major meat and content in that chapter. Alright, next one is create a common database. And that’s the one you were talking about earlier, of genius that people have inside the organization. So do you have a little story about how you created the database, the common database so people can get what they need?
Jake: This is this is a really good story. It happened with a merger. And in this merger, they had some complicated financial instruments that they needed to put in place in order for this merger to work and, you know, floating interest rates and convertible bonds and a whole bunch of stuff that you would need an MBA for to really figure out what are they talking about? And the the main message was, the sooner we can put this together and start operating productively, the better it’s going to be. I mean, at the end of the day, we’re paying less interest, we’ve got less debt, all these good things come from making it happen faster. But what this company did is they had meetings where were they were interactive working sessions. It’s one of the areas of expertise that I have.
So they had 250 people and they were teaching mini MBAs to these people who were roust abouts was an energy company. So they had platforms out in the ocean and the North Sea, and geoscientists. And what they said was part of the common database here is everybody understanding these complicated financial instruments. And so rather than just saying, look, the sooner the better and get to work, they actually paused. And they taught these people why it was so important. And so for them. That common database was about the finances and the structuring of the deal. Common databases, what needs to be known for people to do their work well, and for the organization to succeed? Sometimes that’s two functions getting together and sharing best practices.
Sometimes it’s a boss and the subordinate talking about how to improve the teamwork. Sometimes, it’s even can be used in a meeting in the design of a meeting and you say, Well, what information do we need to share in this meeting, in order for us to make a good decision? So it shows up in many ways and forms but this one where they taught an MBA course, in a morning, to be able to have people smart to be able to make decisions, I think it’s a great example of stretching the boundaries. It was beyond what I had done before I’d never done anything like it. And yet, when they said it, I said, yep, absolutely. That’s the create a common database lever. That’s a really brilliant way to use it.
Nicole: Yeah, I think that people too, in that room, there’s always going to be like somebody in that room. It’s like, I can’t go get my MBA, I can’t dedicate that kind of time. But like, then my company comes in here and downloads very important information. Takes a pause. And I think many people love training. Like, I know, there’s a few they’re like, sour pusses about the whole thing. But most people are like, oh, my gosh, they’re investing in me with this training. So I love that. And that’s what a database does. It allows you to do some self training or like this more formal thing you did genius. Okay, number five, start with impact, and follow the energy. Start with impact and follow the energy. And Nicole Greer is all about impact and energy. So talk about this one. I’m excited to hear.
Jake: All right. So this is one that Mr. Kotter and I may see a little differently. That guiding coalition, what I believe is that an approach that says here’s the specific steps in the sequence to follow them might be just the right thing for you. It might be just the right thing for you. And it may not be. So when I say start with impact, what I’m saying is look into the organization and see where a difference can be made. I’ve had a lot of organization wide change efforts, two year change efforts that started with an 80 person problem solving meeting in a 10,000 person organization. And it starts where there’s opportunity. So where you can make a difference. And sometimes that’s where it’s easy. And you’ll get some quick wins. Sometimes that aren’t where people will take you seriously because you’re going after the tough nuts to crack.
But starting with impact, and then following the energy says, where does the worst one to happen next. And I believe even organizations have consciousness that they do exist as entities. And so paying attention to where does the work naturally go next, then sometimes that starts at the top of the house and comes down from there. But sometimes it starts in the middle or the bottom, and radiates from there. So start with impact means you’ve got to go to where you can make a difference, and then follow it where the work wants to happen. And that, you know, John Kotter would say that there’s a sequence to follow. And I would say, sometimes that’ll serve you best. But when it doesn’t, then you’ve got to look for impact and energy.
Nicole: Yeah. So yeah, so change is messy. Let’s just be clear about change, right? It is messy. And you’ve got to kind of deal with the chaos to figure out where to go next. It’s not always a formula or a theory will get you exactly where you want to go. I do want to share, there was one story that I absolutely loved in Kotter’s book about, he had an organization where the CEO wanted to reduce costs, right. And so that must just be what hello every CEO wants to do. And so he said, he said, you know, what, where is an area that we could reduce costs, and he found out the CEO found out that the organization bought 1000s and 1000s and 1000s of pairs of gloves, it was manufacturing.
And so he just kind of went down this bunny trail to look at, like, how are gloves purchased, and what’s going on. And so, at Kotter’s beginning of his model, he says create a sense of urgency. Which I thought resonated really nicely with your idea of start with impact it. He says in this the story that the CEO brought, he figured out how many different kinds of gloves had been ordered. And there were like, I can’t tell you the number, like 448 different pairs of gloves. And then he got all the invoices for all these different pairs of gloves and like the same pair of gloves was bought for 17 bucks, and then another manufacturing location got it for like eight bucks. I mean, he found out all this hot mess. And so he brought all of his leaders of his sites in, and he dumped all the gloves 448 pairs on the conference table and said, this is what we’re going to talk about.
Jake: Got people’s attention.
Nicole: Yeah. And so they’re like, Oh, we got to figure out how to do this. And so the CEO really wanted to centralize, you know, purchasing. But there was a lot of resistance. And so he used his glove example. So that’s, that’s in Kotter’s like, I think that’s a great story. All right. So let’s go on to number six, develop a future. Oh, I love this, that people will call their own. Oh, can we all get on the same page? Let’s all be happy.
Jake: And this deals with the problem of people asking what’s in it for me? And so this is so popular that a lot of organizations have given it an acronym called WIIFM. Right? What’s in it for me? And when people ask this question, most people, most consultants, most leaders see this as a selfish question. Like, what am I going to get out of this? Right? I think it’s human nature. I think that people deserve to get something out of what they’re doing. And if they’re going to make a change, it needs to make sense for everybody. And so this develop a future, if I can develop a future, you want to call your own, what’s in it for me disappears. It comes off the table, I’m not worried anymore, about being taken care of, because I want to be part of that future.
So one of the things that I’ve done with the book is I’ve created these programs. So there’s a group consultation program. And this is where, you know, a half dozen leaders get together. And we work on real change efforts. So it’s not training, it’s not coaching, it’s really working on their life change efforts. And in one of these meetings that I held recently, they were talking this leader was talking about, how can he get people on board that there was so much resistance in his organization, to what he was trying to create. And this lever of develop a future people want to call their own was the key to success, it was left figure out how we can do that. And the best way to do it is with the people who need to call that future their own.
So sitting back and coming up with a future that I think you Nicole are going to be really excited about is not the right way to do this. It’s Nicole, let’s sit down and find a way to get a future that we’re both excited about. And so in this in this program, this leader took that insight back to their organization and had a whole effort around creating that future, that work for everybody. And it needs to find a way to work for everybody. Because at the end of the day, that’s who you need on board. And so this issue of resistance, which every leader dealing with change has to face, this is a great antidote to that, what’s in it for me problem.
Nicole: I love it. And you know, the thing is, is when you invite people to go to the future, they start using their imagination, which is, I think, a really good skill to be primed and pumped all the time. And so if we invite people to the future, then they start to get innovative and creative. And again, the CEO probably end up with a better change initiative, because he’s involved everybody. So I love that. Love love. All right. And then number seven, find opportunities for people to make a meaningful difference.
Jake: Right. So the problem that this one deals with is that most people in organizations only get to do their routine job. And there’s like, at some level, it’s not a problem. That’s what they signed up for. And doing an excellent job means the organization can thrive, and be a winner in the marketplace and be a winner for the people that work there. That’s all well and good. But when we come to the world of change, there are some unique opportunities to make a meaningful difference. And the more people that you can find opportunities for, the more successful your change is going to be.
And so rather than people saying, well, you know, that’s somebody else’s job, or I didn’t get picked for the team. I didn’t get a jersey this time. Finding ways for people to make a difference. And, you know, again, the best way to figure out what a difference is, is to ask people what it would be. What would make you feel like you had a profound contribution to the future of this organization and people will have an answer to that question. And listening to them is critical. So one of the things I say in the book, Nicole, is that there are four magic words that I think would be really helpful for every leader to have in their vocabulary, which is, could you say more. And what this does is it’s an invitation, it says, I’m interested in what you have to say, I want to hear more.
It makes it a safe space for people to bring up things that might be difficult because you’re asking them to say more about it. And it also tamps down that immediate sort of knee jerk reaction that we sometimes get when somebody says something, and we’re like, well, that’s not gonna work. Well, that’s not helpful. So what we seek to do is if you can automatically say, could you say more, you may learn a lot that you didn’t know beforehand. And so when people talk about, well, I’ve got an open door. Well, if you’ve got an open door, but you’re not curious, when people walk through it, it doesn’t count.
Nicole: 100% I totally agree. And I love what you’re saying about like, asking the follow on question or, or, or opening up the dialogue a little bit further. I think that’s a key leadership skill. I had a gentleman named Bob Tiede on the Vibrant Leadership podcast. And his whole mission in life is to get leaders to ask more questions. And so there’s another example of why you should ask more questions. I love it. Okay. And so then we’re on the eighth one am I right, this is we’re bringing it home. Okay, so the eighth one is make change part of daily work. Of daily work. Tell us about that one.
Jake: So this seals with the problem of people having too much on their plate. And, again, this is so common, every organization, it feels like, I’ve got one more thing to do. And change often ends up being that next thing to do. And there’s no room, people don’t have time for it. So what I’ve looked at is said in every case that you can it’s not true in all of them. I mean, if you have a brand new VRP system, and you’re implementing it across your entire corporation, this is that something that you can apply it into daily work, but there are opportunities, and I’ll tell you a story of an organization that I was working with.
And what they had was I was working with the senior leadership team, and they were working on their meetings, right? I mean, just how do we conduct our meetings. And so I was teaching them about purpose and outcomes, and how useful it is to have a results orientation for their meetings, rather than a lot of meetings, people, like send in agenda items, and then they just get listed. And then people go through those agenda items too often reading off updates that could have been through emails and things like that. So having a results orientation. Well, what happened in this organization was it took hold.
And so every meeting that got held in that organization, which that’s daily work, if there ever was one, right, I mean, just having meetings, but changing the way they had the meetings so that they had purpose and outcomes. And they were really clear of the deliverables that they wanted, not that we covered the agenda. But what was the outcomes that we wanted to achieve? That whole results orientation took over the organization. And in doing so, that’s a great example of making change work part of daily work that you can find simple things that this sort of goes with the Japanese Kaizen notion of continuous improvement, but finding opportunities in daily work to improve the organization is what that lever is all about.
Nicole: I love it. And don’t forget the name of the book, everybody, it’s eight ways to achieve faster, easier, better results, right? So the result is the key. All right, so I don’t know about you, but I’m gonna make sure I ingest this and apply it to all the things that I’m doing. I encourage you to go to Amazon and get Jake Jacobs book Leverage Change. So I’ve got one final question for you. You’ve given us so much good content today, eight levers we can put in place to make our changes work better. But you know, there’s always one person listening, Jake, and they’re like, give me one really good, solid piece of advice on change. What little piece of advice would you give to that special listener?
Jake: Yeah, embrace it. Embrace it. That there are huge opportunities. And sometimes, you know, like, I’m not naive, even though this is what I do for a living. I know it can be difficult. And I know it can be frustrating. And we wrote a book, you don’t have to do it alone, how to involve others to get things done. And the very first chapter on it is who you really need to involve anybody means a whole book about involvement. We started out by saying, look, if you don’t need to know because it’s harder and takes longer and all these reasons, but if you do, then follow these steps. Well, I think the same thing is true around change. It’s like look, if you can be successful, doing business the way that you are right now, then more power to you and keep it up.
But if you need to change, then embrace it fully and, and, and wholly, so that other people, you model for other people as leaders what to pay attention to. And if you welcome change, and you’re curious about it, and you want to learn more, and you want to do it better, and you start reading books, like leverage change, or other ones about it, and start getting smarter about how to do it well, and take what’s worked in the past, and use it again, all of these levers that I’m talking about are really based on embracing change as an opportunity. And I think that that’s a huge difference. Because it can be difficult, it can be hard, it could take time, it could all of these things that make it something that’s challenging, but embracing it, you get on top of it, rather than being buried by it.
Nicole: I love it. I love it. Okay, well, I wish we had like three more hours, we could go through the other two books, or maybe you can come back, we can go through the other two books. If you look, if you look at Jake, right now in the background, you see Real Time Strategic Change. You’ve got the book there, read me the title, okay. You Don’t Have To Do It Alone. And then of course, this one Leverage Change. So Jake, he knows what he’s talking about, folks. So check him out. And so Jake, where can we find you other than buying the books on Amazon? If I want to get up with you personally, I’ve got to change. I need somebody to come and help us. Where do we find you?
Jake: Yeah, so jakejacobsconsulting.com. And there’s a free eBook up there for 27 ways to apply the levers to bring about faster, easier, better results immediately. And if people are interested in having an organization where people do embrace change, where somebody who has been resistant comes up to you and says, I’m on board. I think this is a great idea. If you have a situation where you’ve got specific deliverables that you’re trying to accomplish, and you’re clear what those are for your change effort, then this is the kind of book for you and if you have the desire for change to be faster, easier and better in your organization, then Leverage Change can help you.
Nicole: That’s great. That’s great. So this is just chock full of what Nicole Greer calls strategy systems and smarts to get her done. All right. Jake Jacobs it has been delightful to see you. When I come to Toledo to see Mary. I’m going to look you up and we’re going to have ice cream. We’re gonna go to Jenny’s right. Jenny’s ice cream.
Jake: We’ll go to Jenny’s
Nicole: All right, it sounds great. Alright, have a great day. Thank you so much for being on the Vibrant Leadership podcast.
Jake: Thanks for having me, Nicole.
Voiceover: Ready to up your leadership game? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her unique SHINE method to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Email speaking@vibrantculture.com and be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at vibrantculture.com/TEDTalk.
