How can you become a relationship-centered leader?
As the Chief Experience Officer at the Institute for Healthcare Excellence, Jennifer Krippner is a recognized expert in the field of patient experience and human-centered care.
Jennifer is passionate about building and nurturing connections in relationships—in this episode, she’ll share how leaders can do the same.
She’ll cover:
- How to practice being present with people
- Asking powerful questions
- The importance of listening to your team
- Moving from burnout to thriving
- Her favorite gratitude exercises
- And more
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
TRANSCRIPT
Jennifer Krippner: If you really focus on connecting to the positive emotions, small doses frequently throughout your day that you’re going to really exude that thriving culture, those thriving practices in your team. The more you do that, the more you’re going to get.
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast with professional speaker, coach and consultant Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome everybody to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer, and they call me the vibrant coach and we have a special guest on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. It’s Jennifer Krippner. I am so excited to have her here, and listen to this. She’s got serious street cred.
She is the chief experience officer for the Institute for Healthcare Excellence. Jennifer Krippner is a recognized expert in the field of patient experience and human centered care. She has over 25 years of experience in strategic planning, patient experience, physician development, and employee community engagement.
Jennifer is the most passionate though about building and nurturing connections and relationships, because this whole life is about people. Prior to her lead role as the Institute for Healthcare Excellence, Jennifer was the director of physician development and guest/public relations at Maple Grove Hospital in Minnesota. While there she led the staff driven patient experience advisory teams and develop projects that directly contributed to the consistent top-tier performance in key patient and staff satisfaction results.
Do you think she knows what she’s talking about? Everybody say yes. Just say yes to the podcast. While Jennifer takes great pride in her work, her true north remains for family, her friends and the relationships she developed. And she and I are going to be fast friends here in one hot second. Welcome to the show, Jennifer. Oh, my
Jennifer: Oh my goodness. Thanks, Nicole. So great to be here with you today. I do love meeting new people. And it’s great to meet you.
Nicole: You, too. Awesome. Well, I am collecting definitions of leadership because leadership is the linchpin for building a vibrant culture. If we don’t have good people out front, showing us the way, how in the world are we going to have a vibrant culture? So what’s your definition of leadership?
Jennifer: I completely agree with you. Leadership is critically important to building a culture. Anywhere you work in my field, at least, as you said, has been in healthcare. And so leadership in healthcare is critical to moving work forward. And I truly believe that leadership can be formal and informal. We all lead in our own ways.
And so I really, truly believe that having that blend of the technical skills, understanding truly, really, right how to understand our role and our job is important. But I also believe to be a true leader, you also need to have that cultural capacity in order to really understand how to build relationships, and how to lead relationships, either teams, or you know, unique relationships that are with patients or in families as well.
And so you can be leading from the frontline, as a nurse or care team member, or mental services worker, and have those relationships with patients and families. And that is obviously a leadership role as well. So I think we all lead in our own ways. But having that blend of being both technical savvy, as well as cultural savvy is really important.
Nicole: Hmm, I couldn’t agree more. So you got to know your job, you got to go to school, you got to be the nurse, you got to get the MD you got to do all the stuff. So we have the technical piece, is that what you’re talking about?
Jennifer: You have to know what you’re doing. You have to be an expert in your role. Leading your work from a technical aspect, but I also think if you’re going to truly lead, you have to also understand from a relationship standpoint, how do you how do you lead your team? How do you lead the care of the patient? How do you manage the relationship with the family at the bedside? So how do you also have that ability to have relationships?
Nicole: This is the fifth time we’ve said relationship. Talk about building relationships.
Jennifer: So it’s so important to have the skills and that’s what we really do at the Institute for Healthcare Excellence, is really talk about how do we communicate with one another? How do we recognize and respond to emotions when they’re in the room and you think about healthcare as a practice, it is all about emotions.
And so how do you build that empathy and compassion and then really, truly have the skills to connect with one another. Whether you’re in a leadership role, and you might not have that direct patient care, but you’re having connections with one another. And so how do you get back to that kind of core foundation of practicing things like being present with one another?
How do you connect with somebody if you’re distracted? And then how do you listen and reflect back? How do you ask open-ended questions? How do you have all of those skills to be able to have that relationship centered care aspect with one another?
Nicole: Yeah. And I would think that anybody that’s listening that’s in healthcare knows exactly what you’re talking about. If you can establish that beautiful relationship with the patient, or if we’re in the operating room, and we’ve got everybody in there, everybody’s got to be in good shape with each other, we’re going to have a fantastic outcome, right?
Because we’re going to be loving on people and taking care of them. So you kind of went right through some serious skills. And so I’d love to kind of talk about those a little bit more. You said, practicing presence or being present with people. Can you talk a little bit more about how I actually practice being present?
Jennifer: Yes, I absolutely can. And I think not only from you know, caring for patients and one another, but also as a team, as a leader, how do we show up to our meetings? How do we lead our meetings? If we’re completely distracted, it’s gonna be an inefficient meeting. We’re not going to be paying attention, there’s going to be more work after the meeting.
So you could show up to a meeting and just simply state, before we dive into our work today, is there anything keeping anybody from you know, being present during our meeting today? And just allowing for a quick check in where people can just then voice, you know, what, I’ve got this thing that I need to take care of before we start. Is there, you know, possibility to just pausing for a moment.
Or simply saying, before we start our meeting, let’s just take a quick breath in and out. And everybody just pauses for one second, breathe in and you breathe out. And now we’re here and we’re ready to get started. You can do that before a huddle with your team. If you’re a charge nurse, and you’re leading the huddle before you begin the day’s work, you can simply do either of those items.
Nicole: Yeah, that’s fantastic. I have a facilitator friend that I work with, and everybody gets in the room and they sit down and she says, let’s just put our feet flat on the floor. Let’s close our eyes. Let’s bring our mind and our hearts and our bodies completely into the room. And she just wants everybody to get centered. So I love what you’re talking about.
And then once we’re in that meeting, that we’re talking about, our imaginary meeting, but hello, do you all go to a lot of meetings? And aren’t some of them just like the worst? Everybody say, yes. I go to a lot of meetings that could use improvement. So you said this thing about asking a lot of questions or asking powerful questions. Will you talk a little bit about the power of questions inside that meeting?
Jennifer: Of course. So when we’re with one another, whether it be during our one on ones, with our team members, or when we’re leading a meeting, what if we just went to our meetings and instead of stating things, what if we asked open ended questions and powerful questions, instead of yes, or no answers?
Or maybe ask questions that we perhaps know the answer to? What if we just invited and held that space for people to explore with curiosity? What might that answer be? Think about how we might really improve our meetings. What that might do, I guess, for our team members to feel like their voices are heard, and their invitation to bring their own voice to the table to explore what that topic or interest might be.
And you might just choose one question a meeting and and say, you know what, for the next 10 minutes, let’s explore what this topic might be. And do it with open ended questions. And it just really opens the space. And what I think it ultimately does is start to build that trust with your team. And as a leader, that is like the number one thing that you truly want, as a leader and as a health care team is to build that trust.
Nicole: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. And when you’re saying open ended questions, you correct me if I don’t have it right, Jennifer, but what I think you’re referring to is questions that need to be answered with more than like a yes or no question. Like, who, what, when, where, how could we get things done or move things forward in this particular area of our work? Is that what you’re talking about?
Jennifer: That’s what I’m talking about. It would be a question that I might ask you that I would have no idea what the answer might be for you.
Nicole: Yeah, in that way, we’re doing this thing. I heard this one time. What you want to do with your team is like glean the genius, you know, people on your team have a big fat brain in their head. And you’ve got to get in there and poke around with these powerful questions so that they might even teach you something and definitely contribute to whatever the topic is. So I love what you’re saying.
Jennifer: I think that’s really important to say is that allowing them the space to contribute. I think so often, our team members feel like they don’t have a voice. And they don’t have a say in topics. And that’s one thing that we hear from teams across the country is that nobody ever asked for my opinion, or nobody ever asked me about that project.
So by allowing those open ended questions or powerful questions that you might come up with some really cool improvement, process improvement ideas, or concepts, because you’re allowing that space and time for people to feel like they’ve been heard.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And then just what comes to mind is, if you’re gonna ask a question, you better be ready to listen. So will you talk a little bit about how important it is to listen to your teams and to have that, and again, I think it’s part of also practicing that present moment, that presents right?
Jennifer: Yes, it is. The first thing we want to do is be present, right. So and then followed by listening and so really listening. And I think listening uninterrupted, so allowing that person to speak without interrupting, so that they can get their full story out. Because I think, if we we tend to jump in and want to ask questions. And when we ask questions, then I guess what happens is that now we’re kind of telling our story, because we’re gonna go down the path of our questions.
And so by allowing them to share their story uninterrupted, really gets their story out. And then if we reflect back, in our words, kind of what we’re hearing them say, think about how validating that is for them, and really helps them feel heard. And if you do that with your teams, it’s just remarkable for them to really feel listened to and heard and felt kind of just held in that space.
Nicole: Yeah, the respect level goes up in the trust, which you mentioned earlier. And I call that you know, where people become vibrant, or like, lit from within. They’re like, oh my gosh, they listen to me, and hey, my opinion does matter. And you know, when you’re a leader, the people on your team, they need opportunities to build their confidence, and giving them the spotlight for a few moments to be the focus person while everybody’s listening.
And I love how you said that getting their story out, can really bolster the confidence of everybody on your team, too. And, you know, you mentioned the word culture. And it’s one of my favorite words, it’s one of my favorite topics. What is a culture of thriving? Is that a particular thing you are aiming for when people come to visit your organization?
Jennifer: 100%. I think we have been a country focused on deficits, especially in healthcare. Like what’s wrong. You come to our healthcare facility because you’re sick. And so we’re always focused on what’s going wrong, and what our deficits are. And we really before the pandemic, through the national task force for humanity and medicine, which the Institute for Healthcare Excellence was an operating arm for really thought what if we shifted the focus from deficits to one of a thriving culture?
What if we kind of shone the light on thriving practices. And what if we created a metric for humanity? We have one for burnout, we know what burnout is. We measure it, we think about it. We study it, we talk about it. But what if we talked about what is a thriving team? What’s a thriving leader? What is the thriving culture look like? And we really studied that and we produced more of that. What would it be like?
And so we did a lot of work around that in 2019 and 2020, and published a paper in the Joint Commission Journal on Quality and Patient Safety around our results. And really found that if you really focus on what’s going well, and really highlight the strengths of that team, of that process improvement area, if you really focus on connecting to the positive emotions, small doses frequently throughout your day that you’re going to really exude that thriving culture, those thriving practices in your team.
The more you do that, the more you’re going to get. The more you shine a light and shine a focus on things that are going well you’re gonna get more of that. And so our work now focuses on the state of thriving, cultures of thriving and really focusing on the skills that support that.
Nicole: All right. Well, I would love to know what those skills are that support that. And, you know, as I’m listening to you, I’m getting a little hit about like, the positive psychology movement that’s out there. Of course, it’s been around for a long time now, but you know, keeping things positive. And then I love the work of Gary Cooperrider and his appreciative inquiry.
So write those down everybody, and so let me say it again, appreciative Inquiry great David Cooperrider. And then of course, Martin Seligman’s work with positive psychology. So I bet you there’s flavors of those. So check those things out. And is there a place where we could read your paper? Those for us who are totally nerdy and love a nice scholarly, you know, article?
Jennifer: Absolutely. So if you go to our website, iheteam.com. The papers should be listed on there. Otherwise, I can link it to you. And you can have it on our podcasts, but it’s the Joint Commission Journal on Patient Quality Safety. It was published in 2021. Yeah, so our core skills, like I talked about are really about being present and listening, super important. But it’s also really about asking those open ended questions.
And then once you have listened to their full story, and you’ve asked those questions, then it’s really like, okay, so what do I do with all that information, I don’t want to have to be responsible for it all. And you don’t really have to be. So it’s really turning to that person or your team and saying, okay, now we’ve got all this great information. How do you guys want to prioritize this? What’s most important to you today? For this next hour, in this meeting, we obviously can’t tackle all of these items, but what’s the top one or two we should focus on?
And instead of me as the leader saying, I want to do X, Y, and Z, I’m asking the team. Because you’re gonna get more buy-in, if they say, oh, these top two things to the team are really the most important. Then as the leader, you can kind of say, okay, we’ll tackle these two things. But as the leader, I really think it’s also important to do this third thing. Are you guys okay with that?
So now we’ve negotiated these three things out of the 10 things that came up during our discussion. And we’ll probably notice through the meetings, that there’s going to be some emotions, there’s probably going to be maybe some conflict or some disagreements. So now we have to really recognize what those emotions are. And as a leader, how do you recognize them? And then how do you respond to them? And so through our work, we help you navigate through that with some really key skills on navigating that conflict, or that emotion.
Whether it’s positive or negative, and give you some skills and tools to do that. And then we always, I think gratitude and appreciation is the number one tool in our toolbox to help us get through anything. It’s the most powerful thing that can move any team from burnout to thriving. And so we always wrap our work around appreciation and gratitude.
Nicole: That’s fantastic. And so, you know, post COVID, I know that burnout and overwhelm, it is a real thing for our healthcare workers that are out there. And for those healthcare workers that are listening, maybe you could share a little bit about how you practice gratitude and appreciation. That might be something that they’re like, we’ve got to put that in place, so we can get everybody kind of out of that post COVID mode and get revitalized.
Jennifer: Yeah, for sure. There’s many things we can do. And I think a lot of people, when they think about it, they think, oh, we have to have this great award, everybody gets one once a month, you know, we have to have these big programs. It doesn’t have to be anything big like that. And it can be small.
Like I said before, the best way to practice these positive emotions is in small doses frequently throughout your day. And I’ll give a couple of examples where you can do it with a team. You could do something called three good things. I don’t know if you’ve heard of that through Brian Sexton.
Nicole: Oh, I’d love to hear about it.
Jennifer: So three good things. And it’s really important. I think a lot of people stop at the very first thing, but there’s three components to it. So for seven days, you practice three good things. At the end of the day, right before you go to sleep, you write down three things that went well today. And so that can be big things, little things. It could be like, oh, I watched the sunset tonight and noticed the beautiful, you know, orange sky, right.
So that’s one thing, but there’s two other components to it. What was your role in making that happen? I paused long enough, at the end of the evening to actually watch the sunset. And then what positive emotion did you experience with it? So there’s like 10 positive emotions. Awe would be one of it. I was in awe of it. It can be serenity, it could be love, it could be joy, it could be gratitude. But you name a positive emotion to go with it.
Or it can be as simple as I babysat for my grand puppy. And I had joy because I got to play with my grand puppy. What was your role? I took on the role of baby setting my grand puppy, so my daughter or son could be on vacation. So that was your role and what positive emotion. You got joy out of that. So that could be one thing. You’d find three of those things.
And you’d write those down every day for seven days. It’s sometimes hard to come up with three things, the first couple of days. But by day four or five, you start to notice more good things throughout your day. And what they found is that if you do that for seven days straight, the impact of that lasts for an entire year, there’s depressive symptoms that go way down, and happiness symptoms that go way up.
And your work life balance also improves. And there’s a study out there by Brian Sexton that states all of those really amazing results. But by practicing three good things for seven days, can have a great impact on your thriving practice.
Nicole: I was just sitting thinking of that and I’m thinking, what would it be like if people practiced this when they had dinner with the one they love? Or with their families? Maybe even if you’re thinking my people, you know, I don’t know that they would do it at work. But I certainly do it with my family. And of course, I could certainly do it in a little notebook on my bedside table, right? I can get that done. That’s fantastic.
Jennifer: Even just try one good thing for the first, you know, couple of days, see if it works. Do it with your team at a huddle, just like open up, you don’t have to write it down. Just say what’s one good thing that happened on the last shift. And what was your role in it, and what’s an emotion that you can associate with it? That’s a fun thing to do as a team.
Or put up a big flip chart in the break room and write what’s one good thing that happened today and have people fill it out. It’s just ways to recognize good things that are happening on a regular basis and experiencing positive emotions. Another one is writing a gratitude letter. Like handwriting a little gratitude note. If you do one letter, the lasting impact on that is for 30 days.
You get an uptick in happiness and a decrease in depressive symptoms by just writing one note, and it lasts for a whole month. So you can do that with your team members as well. You can just say, okay, this week, we’re gonna write a letter to anybody that you know, you appreciate or want to thank somebody. So get back to the basics of hand writing.
Nicole: That is, yeah. And I will tell you, I’ve read papers in my work that, you know, there is a connection, when you write something out longhand, there’s a better connection with your brain. It starts you know, moving all through your body neuropeptides are cooking all sorts of great things are going on. So it’s fantastic. I love those two pieces of advice.
Yeah, so we’ve talked a little bit about how leaders need to be great listeners, they need to practice this presence, they need to ask open ended questions, and practice gratitude and appreciation. I love that. So some leaders, they’re just on the struggle bus. Have you noticed this? Like when they come to you, you’re like, these folks are struggling big time.
What do you believe, gets in the way of somebody kind of turning the corner? What are some habits or maybe beliefs that leaders need to adopt so that they can lead in this really healthy way that you’ve been talking about?
Jennifer: Yeah. You know, I think a lot of people are really focused on efficiency and productivity really getting their check lists. You know, kind of that technical, transactional side of leadership and feel like that, that’s where they’re going to be rewarded for. And maybe their leader is also focused on that. So that’s what they’ve learned, they haven’t really been given the opportunity for them to be okay with being relational at work.
We see that often. Like, it is okay to talk about your emotions, or to talk about empathy or be connected to those that you work with. Like, oh, you’re not supposed to be friends with people at work or other colleagues or other leaders, you know, you’re supposed to leave that at the door. And that’s I think we’re burnout comes from as well. You’re more technically focused, you’re more at the computer, now we’ve started working from home.
So we’re withdrawn from those relationships. And I really think that’s where leaders start to struggle. Because then they don’t have that level of trust with their team members are level of respect amongst their peers, because they haven’t been able to break through that ability to connect with other people in that way.
Now, we’re not all hardwired to make those connections. So there’s ways that I think other leaders can help mentor people like that, that maybe just haven’t been able to get to that relationship kind of centered, peer to peer interaction before. And it can be as simple as you know, walking over to that person’s desk and saying, oh, I see you have a picture here of you and your spouse, or you and a grandchild. Tell me more about that.
Using those open ended questions, starting to make a connection with somebody that maybe you see is a leader, that’s more on the technical aspects than the relationship centered aspect and start to share that it’s okay to ask questions about your personal life. And it’s okay to open up about that.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. I have a client over in Kentucky, who she is now the CEO of her company, but her dad started the company. And so she, the whole company tells stories about this dad who was in a very senior position. But what they talk about is not his business prowess, although the guy has made a lot of money and done very well for everybody. It’s not about his processes, his procedures, his products, none of that stuff.
It’s about he comes in here, and he remembers my children’s names. And he remembers that my daughter is graduating from college, and he brings her a little envelope with $10 in it. You know, there’s all these stories about how he is just so dialed in relationship wise, and I had the opportunity to sit down and talk with him. And he said, oh, you got to love on people. That’s how you get them to work.
And I thought, you know, he’s not manipulating the situation, he does really care. But he also sees the connection between the relationship and the transaction were trying to get done, which in his case was, you know, he wanted his people to sell. So I think that is a huge, huge skill set for leaders. Well, we’re past the pandemic, I mean, is it officially over?
Jennifer: I believe so. Yes.
Nicole: Okay, so we can pack that away. And we can think about doing the gratitude and the appreciation, getting our happiness a tick up. I like how you said that. So what is out there that you’re seeing? How are leaders being challenged in? And how are you guys addressing the challenges that might lay ahead?
Jennifer: Yes, good question. You know, after the pandemic, we’ve really looked at our workforce while being in a different way and how that’s impacted the recruitment and retention, as well as the financials in healthcare. And it’s, it’s an incredible, incredible climb and focus for our leaders.
And so I think, really doubling down on your team, and your leaders and really supporting them and investing in them so that they stay with your organization is critically important. And investing in ways that everything that we’ve talked about today so that they do want to stay in health care and continue with your organization is going to be really important.
So I think focusing on strengths, focusing on those teams that are thriving, and getting more of that and sharing that across your own organization is going to be really important. Looking to those leaders that are thriving themselves and can lead teams.
Maybe pairing and mentoring them with other leaders in your own organization that aren’t as strong in that way. So again, looking to where those strengths are, I think is going to be really, really important. The other thing is I think experiencing the work of your teams is important.
Nicole: Oh, so talk about that. What do you mean by that? I heard a little Undercover Boss or something going on right there. Yeah, talk about that.
Jennifer: Maybe not even so much undercover but being in the trenches with them. So you’re the leader, you’re an executive. I think, you know if you have a ton of hard work to do, but also I think walking in the shoes of your team members is really important. And so, you know, be present with them, be listening to them, recognizing their emotions on a day to day basis being appreciative of the work that they do, can build trust and respect.
And ultimately retention in a way that I think would be beyond measurable. So I think that’s huge right now, in what you can do. Even if you can just carve out some time on a regular basis. And then I think if you can always integrate those positive emotions, small doses frequently throughout your day, and especially when you’re doing process improvement activities, because we’re always doing process improvement, right all day long.
I think if you couple that, as an always event with positive emotions, you’re going to double down on your strengths. And so don’t always just strip out the waist, but add in those positive experiences. I think those will be really important things that healthcare organizations can do to not only improve their performance, but also improve their well being because I think it has to be a both/and. You can’t do one without the other.
Nicole: Yeah, and I love what you said you use this little phrase. I’ve never heard that before. You said, this needs to be in always event. I love how you said that. That’s fantastic.
Jennifer: Well, in healthcare, we always talk about never events.
Nicole: Okay, teach me.
Jennifer: This should never happen to a patient. Like I said, we’re always deficit focused, always thinking about things that shouldn’t you know, that go wrong. So the never events like, you should never do surgery on the wrong limb. Those are never events. What about always events? What always should happen?
Nicole: Yeah, I love that.
Jennifer: When you go have surgery, you get an informed consent, right? What is the informed consent, say? All the possible things that could go wrong, and you need to sign your life away. So what if the informed consent started with a line at the top that said, what is your hope for this surgery? Well, I’m having a hip replacement, because I want to walk my daughter down the aisle on her wedding day in the fall.
But what if we started that interaction with an informed hope, and then had you fill out the consent form? And then had that follow you throughout your surgery. So everybody that was taking care of you on the surgery team, and then the inpatient rehab floor knew that you have your daughter’s wedding coming up in the fall, and you were having this surgery because you wanted to be able to walk healthy, down, you know, in the fall down the aisle.
So what an experience would that be for the team member to have that vision for that patient? Versus the patient walking in and saying, well, this could go wrong, this could go wrong, this could go wrong. I’m gonna sign my life away. It would just be more positive for everybody to have that experience. That would be an always event for me is to have informed hope with the consent form.
Nicole: That’s fantastic. So Jennifer, you’re such a bright light. You are vibrant, and absolutely a glass all the way full kind of gal. Absolutely love talking to you. Well, we are at the top of the hour. And I know there are people like wait, don’t let her go. She’s got more to share. I know that there’s somebody here that’s listening. And if you were gonna mentor like one single special listener, right now, what one piece of leadership advice would you give to them?
Jennifer: Yes, I think, be visible and present. And I would show up for your team, and be vulnerable and be real and be positive.
Nicole: Hmm, that is fantastic. Great advice, everybody. I know you totally enjoyed having a moment with Jennifer on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. Would you do us both a favor? Would you go down to the bottom here and leave us a little message, a little love note. I know it won’t be handwritten, like Jennifer said.
But if you just type that in, it’ll make you feel good. You get an uptick in your happiness. And you could like this episode, we’d like a little click on the like button as well. Jennifer, if people want to get a hold of you, if there are my healthcare worker people that I have worked with in the past tuning in, and they were like, we gotta talk to her some more. Where would they find you?
Jennifer: You bet. You can find me on LinkedIn. Jennifer Krippner. Otherwise, our website is iheteam.com. And happy to connect with you there.
Nicole: Okay, fantastic. So everybody go out there and find her. Click on the connect and she’ll connect with you and take it from there. It’s been such a pleasure to have you on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. I hope that everybody will take this advice and go out and build their vibrant, thriving culture. Thanks for being on the show.
Jennifer: Thanks, Nicole.
Voiceover: Ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with their strategies, systems and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email Nicole@nicolegreer.com. And be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at nicolegreer.com.
