On this week’s episode of the Vibrant Leadership Podcast, we speak with keynote speaker and workshop facilitator, Stan Phelps. He works with organizations that want to increase loyalty and sales, as well as awareness through word of mouth by differentiating their brand, customer, and employee experience. He engages audiences with practical ideas that inspire action and get results. He is a Forbes Contributor and author of the Goldfish series on customer experience and employee engagement.
Stan chats with us about great anecdotes of incredible leaders, as well as:
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Consistent touchpoints during the pandemic
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Committing fully to any endeavor
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How to recognize and provide feedback effectively
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A clear path to becoming a leader
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And more
Mentioned in this episode:
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The Yellow Goldfish by Stan Phelps
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The Red Goldfish by Stan Phelps
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The Green Goldfish by Stan Phelps
Transcript
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Vibrant Leadership Podcast with leadership speaker and consultant Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome everybody to the Vibrant Leadership Podcast where we figure out what is possible and try to put strategies, systems and smarts in place to make those things probable. And today to help us figure out all of those things, we’re going to be talking with Stan Phelps. And let me tell you, he’s a talented guy.
He is an author. And if you’ll just point over your shoulder, you’ll see all of Stan’s, there you go, oh, Stan’s books, that’s just a smattering of the plethora, those are my SAT words for the day of books that Stan Phelps has written. He’s also a keynote speaker, and a workshop facilitator. He works with organizations that want to increase loyalty, sales, and get word of mouth going through brand, customer and employee experience. He can come to you in person as soon as COVID is over. And you can definitely do a virtual program.
And the thing about Stan is, did you see that he stands out in a sea of sameness, because he models his own message. And I’m really curious about your message of a differentiated experience how that might mesh with leadership, we’re going to go there. And differentiation isn’t just about what you say. It’s about what you do, and more importantly, how you do it, and why you do it. So Stan leverages listen to this, his unique collection of more than 5000 case studies. I’d like to see where these are. It’s a very large file cabinet. And he studies those so that he can engage audiences with practical ideas that inspire action, and get results. And so a round of applause for Stan Phelps. I’m so glad you’re joining me on the podcast.
Stan Phelps: Yeah. Thank you, Nicole. Pleasure to be here.
Nicole: Yeah, yeah. So we talk about all things leadership, and just right out of the gate, what’s your definition of leadership?
Stan: My definition of leadership really is about two things. One, it’s trying to create that shared vision for the future that you’re going to create. And then it’s about supporting your team and enabling them towards that direction that you’ve you set out. So I really think it’s those two components of knowing where you want to go and being able to to lead, but then also supporting and enabling your team along the way.
Nicole: Yeah. So I heard a lot of communication inside of those two strategies. I gotta tell you where we’re going. And then I got to talk with you about what you need to get the job done. So I love your definition of leadership. So you are like a marketing guru, right? I mean, but here’s the thing, every marketing department has a leader, or a set of leaders. And so I’m curious, do do leaders need to market themselves? And if so, is there a way you can do that, and use your strategies of differentiation?
Stan: Yeah, first off, I’m a big fan of this quote. “Everything is marketing. And marketing is everything.”
Nicole: Oh, I like that, too. I think that’s fantastic.
Stan: I mean, I, I do think it all, you know, one of my books is all about how purpose is so key. And, and, and it’s really, you have to be able to communicate and tap into that purpose, to be able to provide that direction. And you’ve got to do it in a way that connects with people. So they can see that vision and believe in it. And then again, I I talk a lot a lot about kind of the marketing and the experience that we provide.
But what I’ve learned, and I’ve written a number of books on this is you cannot do it, unless you have a team that’s engaged, to be able to create that great experience, and bring that purpose to life. So I think it’s absolutely key as a leader that you’re always marketing, you’re always reinforcing and recognizing the behavior that you want. And in communicating, and it’s absolutely important.
Nicole: Yeah, I totally agree. So when I’m coaching leaders, one of the questions I always ask them at the beginning of the engagement is I say, What is it like to experience you? And this question is like mind boggling. For some, they’re like, oh, I’ve never thought about that before. I’m like, you really need to think about it because not only does your product or whatever your service is that you have inside of your organization. Leader, he or she themselves has a brand that’s known throughout the entire organization, and you really have to manage it and be intentional about it.
So, so a leader that is great to experience, what do you think are the habits of a great leader? You know, I have my SHINE coaching methodology, which is Self assessment, Habit, work, Integrity work, Next right steps and Energy. And I think habits is the thing that helps you experience a leader better. So what what habits do you think a great leader does?
Stan: Well, I think I think, at the end of the day, I’m a big believer in this, whether it’s experience or leadership, is understanding how people very quickly judge you. And so 80% of how we view other people, Nicole, really comes down to this two things, warmth, and competence. And so the the warmth bit, and this is really interesting, based on science is that, you know, as we evolved as human beings, and we walked out of the cave, everyone we came into contact with, we would have to make a judgment about very quickly, right?
What is their? What is their intent? So what are their intentions towards me. And very quickly, number two, what’s their ability to carry out those intentions, and our life depended upon it. And so, again, 80%, of how we view other people is through that lens of warmth and competence. So I think about the the habits that you have as a leader is that you really want to try to exude warmth, you want to make sure that that intention that you have towards others. From a competence perspective, you’re doing that on a consistent basis. Right. And people judge based on what they see.
And then they’ll confirm that bias of what they see. So I think we always have to be showing, you know, doing the little things, to demonstrate both that warmth to reinforce our intent, and do it on a consistent basis. So people will judge us as competent. And here’s the thing, they’re not equal. People definitely put a much more of an emphasis on the warmth than they do on the competence. So I think we we have to find ways habits in order to bring that warmth to life.
Nicole: Yeah, well, I will tell you, I’m just sitting here thinking about some habits of warmth. And the first things that come to my mind is, like, make eye contact with people smile, use their name, these are all the things that you know, your your mother taught you, you would go meet the neighbor, lady, or whatever, and your mom would look at you and say, say hello, say hello. You know, and you know, you’re like, Hello, you know, and you didn’t want to say hello, but like, you know, you get you can get these habits in place. You if you don’t think Well, I’m not really a warm and fuzzy, maybe that’s kind of what how we could say it kind of person. But you need to be warm. And you do need to be a little fuzzy, you know, I mean, stopping shaving, but I’m talking about, you know, being somebody that’s soft and easy to be with, right?
Stan: Yeah, you know, one of the one and this is such a simple thing. But it’s a truism, people don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care.
Nicole: It’s the Maya Angelou quote that I love. I love that.
Stan: She’s from North Carolina. So, so double points there. You know, it’s such a simple thing is that, you know, as a leader, you have opportunities. And this is going to come back to to communication, through recognizing your team, to be able to tell stories, to bring that vision and purpose to life. And to your point, it’s small things that you do, as you begin a meeting, before people, people leave that meeting, small things that you can do to engage and reinforce that warmth.
Nicole: Yeah, I love that. You know, you’re talking about meetings, and one of the things that I will share with people in meetings, I’m like, when you get to the meeting, don’t just dive into the agenda. Like that’s the competencies piece. Like, I have an agenda and it has a timeframe. And right, you know, we will execute those appropriately. Okay, that’s fantastic. However, why don’t we put a little something in the agenda that’s just like, we’re going to go around the room and take everybody’s temperature or ask a question like, what are you most looking forward to doing over our three day weekend for the holidays or whatever, right? We get to peek into people’s lives.
And what I find is we have so much in common as humans, like, I don’t know about you. Well, we talked about Thanksgiving. Before, when we talked, we did the member spotlight. So hey, FYI, everybody, you can see another episode of the Stan Phelps show, I did an NSA membership spotlight, it’s on my stream on my social media. But the thing about it is, is if you can connect with people like on a human real personal level, then people are more willing to bring themselves to the work fully. That’s what I find. And if I have common ground with Stan, it’s just so much easier to go to work.
Stan: Absolutely one of my old bosses. And this is such a small thing, at the end of every meeting, we would spend a few minutes to do appreciations. And my old boss would start out with one to somebody to the team. But then it opened up to anyone on the team, you could say, Hey, I appreciate Nicole, she jumped in and helped me with something or, you know, I needed to find a vendor. And she was you know, she came with a great recommendation, or she gave me an eye. Those little things of appreciation, we we need to we need to almost schedule and build them in because we know they’re important. But you know how things get busy.
Nicole: Well, I’m curious, you know, your 5000 case studies, I, you know, I just finished my degree at Queen’s, and I’m a little case studied out at this point. But you’re inspiring me to get get another case study, you know, read. So in the case studies that I’ve read for the work that I’ve done, it’s a lot about how your brain works. And you’re talking about giving these moments of appreciation. And I know that you study how the brain works, because how does the brain you know, decide what product to buy?
IE what kind of marketing do we need, but like people get a little drip of dopamine every time that they’re told they’re loved, you know what I mean? And so, you know, the leader is going to get lots of good dopamine going through the body of the people on their team. And then it’s like, I heard it said this way, Stan, like people start marinating in your appreciation. And like, it’s true, it’s true. So what science do you know about all that? I know, you know about that.
Stan: Well, yeah, I mean, I’ve wrote an entire book on happiness called the Yellow Goldfish. And here’s the thing, we have to remember that not all of the experiences that we create, are equal. So I love the idea that you brought up how with dopamine, we get stimulated, right? And here’s the thing, dopamine is literally the post it note for our memory.
Nicole: Oh, tell me more. This is exciting.
Stan: So, when when are essentially, the way our brain works is that we don’t want to have to think this, our brain is the biggest consumer of energy in our body. So what the brain is actively looking for are patterns. So once a pattern gets established, right, we we develop what’s called a schema. And then like, you can get your car right, and drive 15 minutes. And, and you’re like that, you get your destination, you don’t remember what you did, because, but here’s the thing, you go to another country, right?
So if you’re in, in England, or in Australia, and now you’re driving on the other side, or even if you’re just a passenger, I mean, your brain is like, freaking out. So here’s the thing, it’s, it’s understanding that if you can create these little peak moments, and recognition is such a big thing, especially as a leader, because there’s a disconnect from what leaders think they provide, and what employees feel. And, and I believe this recognition if done correctly, you know, I think Nicole we have the wrong. We look at recognition in the wrong way. The old school thinking is you do a b, c, d, e, f is your recognition, right? You get F at the end recognition is something that happens at the end of the game or the end of the quarter,
Nicole: Right? The gold watch after 25 years, which I’ve got a story about 25 years, but anyways, go ahead.
Stan: But here’s what here’s what the research shows that if you do it early, and you do it often, that recognition is actually like fuel. I love how you use you. said the marinating, right. But it’s literally fuel for performance. So you as a leader, I think you constantly have to be on the lookout for little things that you can shine a light on. And recognize people for.
Nicole: Yeah. So what is the right way to show recognition? Like, there’s a whole bunch of stuff out there about reward systems and bonus systems and things like that. I think a lot of leaders would like to know, what should I do? So I think money is one thing, but you know, there’s that survey that goes around, I think Gallup puts it out. And like, always, money is never the number one motivator. The number, the number one motivator is what you said earlier about your book, what color is the purpose book.
Stan: So purpose is Red, but this is really interesting, because you talk about monetary. Yeah, my first book was Purple, because I thought everything had to be about the customer. Right, and I’m a marketer. But what I realized is that the companies that really got it, Nicole, not only got it for their customers, but they even put a bigger emphasis on their employees. Right. And here’s the thing, I named that one Green Goldfish. And part of the reason is, the subtitle of the book is Beyond Dollars. Because it’s shown even if you give someone arrays, the bump that you get in engagement is fleeting.
And, you know, surveys will also show, you know, getting a, this is not a water bottle, but imagine you got a little thing that had Green Goldfish in it with the logo of the company versus getting and that might be a $20 cost to the company. And you gave somebody $100 in cash, what do they value more? That? That, right? So here’s the thing, it’s, it’s little things that you can do again, it could be a handwritten note.
It could be a quick email, it could be a mention on LinkedIn, it could be during like a meeting, it could be in a company newsletter. It could be you know, telling the supervisor, your you know, maybe maybe not your boss, but it’s someone above just recognizing it to them, which you know, trickles down. But again, you can’t do it in my mind. And I’ve written this, you can’t do it too often or too soon.
Nicole: That’s exactly right. Yeah. So I have this little formula that I share with people, it’s called a C3. And so it’s, you know, if you don’t know how to give good feedback, because if I said, you know, you’re Stan Phelps was my employee, which would be amazing in my life. But if he was if he was my employee, and I said to him, I said, you know, Stan, you’re doing a good job. And he’s like, Oh, thanks. Because even though you think you’re giving feedback, it’s, it’s kind of empty. It’s like I do a good job every day. What are you talking to? You know, thanks for noticing.
But the C3 is this idea of like, pointing out particular circumstances? That’s the first C, I saw instances, yeah, I saw you doing this thing, right. And you then identify the conduct or the behaviors that you saw, I saw you making sure that this was accurate. And you were greeting people with a smile and whatever, all the different things you are competent and had warmth. Don’t miss that that was earlier, rewind and listen to that again. But then there’s the third thing of like saying here are the consequences of your behavior.
Stan: Why it really matters.
Nicole: Yeah, tying it back to the vision that you were talking about, you know, the answer to your first question, you’re like, vision is number one. And so when you’re when you smile, when you’re warm, and you when you’re accurate. I know, we’re gonna hit this goal out here. And people are like, Oh, she’s really paying attention. And I think I think that’s when we really are grateful. Got it. Lots of good marinating going on. I think that’s important. Yeah. All right. So you know, you’re you’re out there working despite the pandemic, in fact, you sent this thing to me the other day on the phone, you said, is the pandemic happening to you? Or was that you? I think it was you wasn’t it?
Stan: That’s too smart. Definitely not.
Nicole: I think it was you, like, are you letting the pandemic happen to you are, you know, head on facing the pandemic with all your energy that you’ve got, and, and so, I know leaders are facing all of the hotness of the pandemic but you know, your people that are trying to market a product, you know, where I can’t even get people over number certain number in my store? Or, you know, I can’t take my people to the workplace. Well, what are you telling your leaders, you know, to do in these tough times? What’s your what’s your what’s your big message?
Stan: Wow, I think, you know, I think as many leaders are now dealing with a more virtual workforce, right? In the past that might have been hybrid. But now everyone is virtual, right? I think, you know, you miss a lot of the small touch points that we all just took for granted. Right, whether it’s seeing people in a break room, or a cafeteria, or at the water cooler, or even bumping into somebody with a little bit of serendipity, when you’re heading to the bathroom, or, you know, just, you know, walking through the parking lot, we all have those moments are gone.
And so I think we have to find opportunities to create better touchpoints. There’s a great former CEO of Campbell’s, and I love this. His name is Doug Conant. I’m gonna look him up. Yeah, Doug was amazing. He was big on handwritten notes. Over the course of a decade, he wrote over 35,000 handwritten notes. And he had assistants that helped them, but literally, he would write it out. And he would be thanking them and recognizing the great things that his team was doing, he single handedly created an innovation and just really, you know, one at the culture. But one of the things I love that he would do, at the end of the day, he literally would chains out of his work shoes and put like walking shoes on, right.
And literally he would walk and do 10,000 steps through the headquarters. And that was just a small thing for him to be able to drop in and keep a pulse on what’s going on. And so I think we you know, as leaders, we have to be more proactive for trying to create those moments. And it could be that every couple weeks you you set up a coffee where you just connect with people in the morning, over a cup of coffee. You figure out ways that maybe you can do some virtual create a little virtual lunchroom. But I think we have to find ways that we can we can find opportunities to recreate some of those touch points.
Nicole: I think that is absolutely genius, what you’re saying. So I don’t, I don’t know where I got this from, but like, it’s kind of in my repertoire of things I share with my business clients, my business coaching clients, but a long time ago, there’s this thing called the seven touches, and how, you know, I think there was some old research that like, you have to touch people seven times, you know, so it within a calendar year, I don’t know where that came from, but I put it in my toolbox a long time ago.
And inside Vibrant Coaching, you know, when we have a client, you know, they have, we have several things that we do so that they know we’re paying attention to them. And so I just I’m thinking to myself, Oh, we could use that same idea. With our employees, you know, how how can a leader intentionally make sure that they’re reaching out so absolute genius, okay. So, talk a little bit about how, you know, like, I want to, I want to, I want to grow myself, I want to become a leader. I’m listening to this podcast, because I’m not there yet. How do I get how do I market myself to be in the running for the next leadership position? What What do you think if you had a special listener, and you were going to mentor them, you know, the Stan Phelps mentoring program? What would you tell them?
Stan: What would I tell them So? So a little bit of background, I come from a sports marketing background. So I worked in baseball, I worked in tennis. I worked in golf.
Nicole: I bet that was coveted.
Stan: Yeah, it’s, it’s hard, hard to break into working in sports. So a lot, a lot of lessons there. But there’s a guy who’s a very successful baseball executive. In fact, Time Magazine a few years back, made him the Leadership Executive of the Year. So not just for sports, but in all business. His name is Theo Epstein. So Theo was at a very young age. And this is key here. He got promoted to be the general manager, the GM of the Boston Red Sox.
Nicole: Whoa.
Stan: And and he turned, he turned the culture around at the Boston Red Sox and brought them their first World Series title. And at the time, I think it was like 80 something years, right was 90 years. And then Theo then proceeded to go to the Chicago Cubs.
Nicole: Which is another legendary ballclub.
Stan: Who even had a worse drought than the Red Sox. The Red Sox had the curse of Babe Ruth the Cubs had if you believe it like a goat issue. But he brought the Chicago Cubs their first World Series title. This is going back about four years ago. And and he got interviewed and I’ll never forget this. They asked him so well. What would you recommend to somebody if they wanted to be a great leader? And I love this. He said this. He said, figure out when you’re working for your boss, though, someone that’s leading you, he said figure out the 20% of the job that they absolutely hate. And his advice was get really good at that 20%
Nicole: I think that’s genius.
Stan: Right. And and I’ll give you you know, that’s so that’s I think, a fun thing. I’ll give you a smaller one.
Nicole: Okay.
Stan: Is from North Carolina is a great speaker out in Asheville, his name’s Bill Treasurer. Would you ever heard of Bill before?
Nicole: I I’m shocked. No, I don’t know Bill Treasurer.
Stan: We should connect you guys because he would be awesome to have on this podcast. He’s all about courageous leadership. He’s written a number of leadership books. But I love this. He came home one day. And here he’s this leadership guru. And his five year old son says to his dad, he says daddy says I got to be a leader today. And of course, Bill’s like, Wait a second, like, hey, and he’ll tell me more. How did you how did you become a leader? And he looked at his dad, I love this. He said, I got to open doors.
Nicole: That is beautiful. I guess I got you.
Stan: Yeah, it is I love this. He one of this. Another child of Bill’s has special needs. And he wrote a great book called Leaders Open Doors, which chronicles the story. It’s just a really quick read. But all of the proceeds of that book go towards I forget which nonprofit it is.
Nicole: We’ll put that in the show notes, so you can buy it and we can support.
Stan: Yeah, yeah, just figure out ways that you can open doors for others. And again, you know, going back to Theo’s advice, it could be as simple as trying to lean in and help the leader, you know, that your immediate leader, figure out ways that you can make them more effective, figure out how you can open more doors. And that I think that’s the simplest path to becoming a leader.
Nicole: Yeah, I think that is beautiful advice for that listener out there that wants to get into leadership. Well, I, I think that we’ve taken a good look at leadership all the way around. But I got one last question for you. And that is, you know, I love this concept of leadership. Because there’s, there’s a lot of types of leadership, there’s, I lead myself, I lead others, I lead a strategy or a vision towards a result.
And I also lead in the community. And one thing that I love about you is you really give of yourself as a leader, and you are currently we keep mentioning the National Speakers Association, or I do anyways, it’s a it’s an organization I’m part of, and I have the privilege of working alongside Stan, and he’s going to be the president next year. He’s the president elect right now. Tell me a little bit about why you take on these roles that are volunteer, and that are I mean, more work on your plate, quite frankly. So why, why do this why lead yourself that way?
Stan: I have a firm belief that in life, you should never be half pregnant at anything. So you either have to be in or you have to decide to be out. And whenever you whenever you feel like you’re, you’re in the middle, that’s really a challenge. And so I tell people, I never join anything unless I’m committed to trying to make it better, and be part of that solution to make it better. And so really quick, when I, when I moved to North Carolina back in 2012, I started to go to some meetings. But I really never got engaged with NSA, Carolinas, and part of it was because of that feeling, either I was going to be in or I was going to be out.
Well, you’ll find and I know, you know, this, when you meet people who are involved with the National Speakers Association, Association, they are so giving, there’s a spirit of cooperation, that we can kind of all grow things together. And after a few years, I was moved by that, and I decided to join. And then I thought that there were some issues that needed to be addressed. And again, I wasn’t going to be part of something unless I was willing to do the work to be able to bring at least my vision of what I thought the organization could be.
So I I’ve been honored over the last two years, being the VP of programming the VP of membership, you being the members, VP of membership right now. But I really think we have the ability to create a really vibrant community that can help each other grow, and learn and be successful. And so I’m, I’m honored to be part of it.
Nicole: Yeah, that’s fantastic. And so I love this idea of like, if you’re going to be in, just go 100% in and, and the payoff, I think is really, really big. And it’s that same thing people know, if you’re in, right, that’s a little bit of that warmth that you were talking about to champ kind of just bookend our conversation. It’s like, I think he really cares. A lot. Right. And so that’s that’s the other thing about leadership is like we know, we can tell if you really care, it’s it’s right there in the in the leadership that you present in what it’s like to experience you.
And today has been a delightful experience of stand Phelps. So if you’re listening to this on audio, I would suggest that you go and look at it at least the first minute or two of the video. And you’ll get an idea of what it’s like to experience Dan Phelps, because he’s super fun, super smart. And he’s got a lot of research to back up what he does. And how many books do you have now Stan? And where can we buy them and where you can speak at our event?
Stan: Sure. They’re, they’re all they all have Goldfish as part of them. So goldfish is a metaphor for growth. There are now 16 different books in the series. They’re all available on Amazon. But the best way if you want to find out more about me, either on LinkedIn, Stan Phelps on LinkedIn or just go to Stanphelps.com.
Nicole: Okay, perfect. All right. So it’s been an absolute delight to be with you today. Thank you. For everybody who has been listening today. Go to Stan Phelps website, check him out. He’s also on YouTube, you can get a little taste of what he can do in front of a crowd. And if you’re in need of marketing, expertise, and leadership, he is the guy. Thank you so much, Stan.
Stan: Thanks, Nicole.
Voiceover: Ready to up your leadership game? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her unique SHINE method to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Email speaking@vibrantculture.com, and be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at vibrantculture.com/TEDtalk.
