What are the 9 Unbreakable Laws for Leaders?
What can spiders, sea turtles, mangrove forests, and more teach us about leadership?
Former zoo and aquarium senior leader, Julie Henry is now an author and President of Finish Line Leadership. She uses her insights from wildlife and wild places to help leaders succeed in corporate, nonprofit, and government organizations. On this episode she discusses:
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The three parts of the Wisdom Pyramid
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Each of the 9 Unbreakable Laws
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How to create a team like a coral reef
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And much, much more
Like nature, change is constant… but it doesn’t have to be chaos. Her unique approach to leadership coaching will help you become someone who can drive, survive, and thrive through change. Lead the way you were born to lead.
Don’t miss this conversation! And be sure to check out her brand-new book, Wisdom from the Wild.
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Julie Henry: I encourage you as nature does to lead in the way that you are born to lead. That’s how nature acts. Cheetahs don’t try to be naked mole rats, sea cucumbers, don’t try to be pelicans. They’re uniquely designed for their niche. And you are, too.
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast with professional speaker, coach and consultant Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer and they call me the vibrant coach and I am here today with an amazing author Ms. Julie Henry. She uses insights from wildlife and wild places to help leaders drive and survive change. She is the president of Finish Line Leadership and the author of Wisdom from the Wild: The Nine Unbreakable Laws of Leadership from the Animal Kingdom. She is a former zoo and aquarium senior leader. Julie has worked with over 55 organizations, don’t miss that, across corporate, nonprofit, government and association sectors. She has yet to see a wolf in the wild or snorkel with whale sharks but hope to soon. I am absolutely delighted today to have Julie Henry on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. How are you doing?
Julie: Hey, Nicole, I’m good. Thanks so much for having me on.
Nicole: Yeah, I’m excited. I’m excited. I’m so glad that our paths crossed, because we’re both wild about leadership and don’t miss that. So I absolutely love the fact that you’ve written this book that’s going to come out in January. Do I have that? Right?
Julie: You got it. Absolutely. January 4th.
Nicole: Okay, so we’re gonna make sure that like it’s in the show notes people go down there and look at her book cover Wisdom from the Wild. So you know, I start off every podcast, I’m collecting definitions of leadership. I want to get so close to it. So what is your definition of leadership?
Julie: You know, my definition is pretty short and sweet. It is about leading change. Because if you’re not doing that, I don’t know why you’re leading. And I have yet to meet a leader who wants to lead the status quo. They have a vision, they have change they want to enact, and they need people around them to do it.
Nicole: Hmm, I absolutely adore that. Yes. So we’re leading change. And if you’re not doing that, what are you doing? That’s a very good self reflective question. Don’t miss that. Write it down. What am I, what are we changing? What should we change? Right? Because there’s always room for potential of possibilities and potential and all those good things. That’s fantastic. And that’s what happens in the wild. Right, they have to change. And so talk about that a little bit. Change.
Julie: Yeah, you know, and just to follow up on the definition here for just a second, you know, to me, we’re always trying to trying to qualify leadership, right. Leadership is not a job title. Leadership is not management. Yeah, you’re right. So for me, when I think about leadership as leading change, that means it’s not a job title. I was that person on the front line that saw all those possibilities, and how can I enact these changes, and I was that person, leading those people who needed to pick their brains and what they see. So I think that helps us think about it. And then from the wild life perspective, and the wild perspective, I mean, goodness, I just walked the beach this morning, and I thought, well, looks totally different than it did last Monday when I was here.
So it’s the very definition of change, and dealing with things you don’t see coming. And so as leaders, sometimes change makes us feel uncomfortable. But when I think about wildlife, and wild places deal with change all the time, and you know, they’re still here and evolving, it makes me feel safe, and that I can try new things.
Nicole: That’s fantastic. Well, I’m curious about like, when you were a little baby girl, where you all ended the animals and everything. Like how did how did you find this? It seems like the wild and leadership are almost like you’re calling.
Julie: Yeah, you know, that’s so apropos the way you describe it, because I went to my 10 year high school reunion. And at the time, I was working for an aquarium and my girlfriend that I’ve known since fourth grade, said, oh my gosh, that’s perfect. You’ve always loved wildlife. And sometimes you forget and you need people in your life to reflect that to you. And so as a kid, I just I was growing up in Chicago, and I was just always outside.
You know, I remember that our cat killed a skunk one time and hid the carcass in the bushes and we eventually found it and I was like, oh my gosh, I have to take this skunk carcass into school for show and tell. My parents were like, no, you don’t like but it is so cool. So I just always, I just was always I mean even now I’m you know, what am I 46, 47 years old and people know if they can’t find me. Look outdoors.
Nicole: That’s right. She’s out there somewhere. We’re gonna have to put one of those identification things those chips underneath your arm so we can find you. She’s outside but we got her on alert because she’s got her chip. Yeah, okay, that’s awesome. So I would say that Julie Henry has the call of the wild. Don’t miss that. Okay, and so you’ve written this amazing book that’s based on your actual experience of like, I mean, how many people do you meet that like run aquariums and zoos?
Like this is not the this is not the average bear that you meet, right? So she’s got all this experience and she’s gained some wisdom. And so you guys, you listeners are so lucky. Tell us a little bit about Wisdom from the Wild in general. And then I’d love to kind of look at each one of the nine unbreakable laws. Can we can you start off by giving us a high level about the book and the Wisdom of the Wild? What do you mean by that?
Julie: Yeah, you know, it wisdom from the wild means that, you know, when I think about leadership, and just experiences we go through as life, I think about it as a pyramid. And on the bottom is the knowledge. We are learning things from books or facts, or at least we think they’re facts, and then we get into life, whatever stage of life you’re in, and we get some experience. And then you find out, oh, that doesn’t work exactly the way I thought it would, or, gosh, that mentor is not standing over my shoulder, I’m going to have to make the decision myself. And eventually that pinnacle is getting to wisdom. And wisdom is basically building on all that foundational knowledge you have, all that lived experience, I call it the miles and moments of leadership and and that the top is wisdom, and it takes some time.
And don’t get me wrong. I’ve met nine year olds with a ton more wisdom than I have about, you know, leading groups of through strife. I mean, it could be on the soccer field, that’s leadership as well. So when I thought about it is okay, let me let me think about that wisdom is, is I call it process driven scars. It’s what you’ve been through as a leader. And when I look outside, and I look at wildlife, and I look at gosh, that tree looks kind of ratty, but you know, it’s somehow you know, it bent this way and, and bent that way, but look at it, it’s still growing and it has leaves. So it’s that positive spin on it, and that, and that that’s the way we’re built is to take our wisdom, but continue learning from it. It’s never ending.
Nicole: That’s right. That’s right. And I totally agree, I think part of wisdom is that you’re a lifelong learner. Right? You know, and I love your your thing with the tree because I think about a tree has all those circles, you know, if you were to cut the tree down, you’d see all the years of growth that it experienced. And then on the outside on the bark again, you see all the different things, the process driven scars that it got, that’s fantastic. Okay, so don’t miss that. I’m gonna say it again. Everybody write down wisdom equals process driven scars, you know, like the stuff you’ve learned that you’ve you’re going to put to work. And also, I love your definition of experience, the miles and the moments that have taught you everything you’ve learned to this point. Did I get that right?
Julie: Yeah, you got it.
Nicole: Okay. Okay. So she’s downloading some major, good vocabulary so far. Thank you, Julie Henry. Okay, so Wisdom from the Wild, there are nine unbreakable laws of Leadership. So what is law number one?
Julie: So law number one, you know, I’ll break it down for your listeners as well. I have three big circles. Because when you’re looking outside, you know, you need you need habitat, you need shelter, you need water, and you need food to survive at the very basic definition of what is life. So when I thought about leadership, okay, how do you lead change? What can we learn from the wildlife? Well, we can learn how to lead change, that’s the first circle. We can learn how to lead teams, because we’re going to need people to affect our change. And then the last circle is learning how to flex your resilience muscle as an as a leader, you know, leading from the inside out.
So each of these three circles have three unbreakable laws that go along with them. And the way I laid them out is the first law teaches people a process that they can use as leaders. The second one is kind of funky. So for example, naked mole rats and those kinds of animals. And then the third law is an inspirational motivational law. So the first law is about about change. And it comes from mangroves, so I kind of threw you for a loop here. I don’t, I didn’t start with animals. But I the first unbreakable law is change is constant. But it doesn’t have to be chaos. And I use mangroves as an example on how to do that and how to approach it.
Nicole: Okay, so talk about a mangrove for us, because some of us are like, I should know what that is. What is that?
Julie: Okay, so a mangrove is a tree, a species of trees, there’s a few species of them and they live in salt water. And so right away, I want you to understand that it’s really hard for a tree to live in salt water, it’s really hard. It’s really hard to lead change, but they do it and they do it well. And they’ve adapted to this super unique niche. There are not a lot of trees that can live in salt water, and there are not a lot of leaders can necessarily affect change and lead change well. But when you look at these mangroves, again, if I were to take you on a boat with me right now and off the coast of Florida where I live, and I would show you these mangrove trees, the first species you see the first one that’s right in the ocean literally has what we call walking routes.
So they’re sticking their roots out into the ocean to basically build new habitat and its habitat for animals and all kinds of things. But also, it’s how they will stand the energy of the ocean. So isn’t that what change is all about right around the corner, there’s a storm, there’s a wave that catches us off off guard. But to have that red mangrove, which is that first step in the process is assessing and benchmarking where you are. And then the second species of mangrove is a black mangrove. And so a black mangrove is where you start to build your plan. That’s the second step of how you lead change is building your plan.
So notice, I didn’t just start with the plan, you have to assess where you’re coming from first. And the black mangrove is really funky, because they have all these roots that they stick up, they literally call them snorkel routes, and it’s how they breathe, they get oxygen, which is super cool, because again, hard to live in saltwater. But then the third species of mangrove is my favorite, because it’s the one that people don’t often think about. And this is the part of change that people don’t often do. And that is a white mangrove species. And they have a leaf that looks kind of like a Frankenstein head, they get two little bolts on the other side of their leaf, if you will, and it’s where they exclude some sugar substance, and they attract animals, insects that eat that, but that’s their strategy and how they survive salt water.
They, they keep the saltwater from coming into their body, and they produce the sugar substance. So the last step of leading change also has two parts. It’s about committing to action to see and also communicating what you’re doing. And it sounds really obvious that I say commit to action, but how many people do we know who have visions and don’t act on it? And then how many people do we know who have all this change in place, they have a plan and then they just go, and they don’t lay out a strategic way to communicate what they’re trying to do.
Nicole: You are speaking the truth right now. Alright, so in case you didn’t catch all that everybody. Three parts of change and help me as we go along here. First thing is to assess and benchmark where you are. What situation are you are in. And I love this whole thing of the mangroves. Thank you for teaching me and I do want to come to Florida and go on a boat with you and see this. But anyway, so we assess, assess and benchmark where we’re at, you got to have a true reality of where you’re at. And that assessing and benchmarking. I think leaders sometimes think everybody understands where we are.
Julie: Yes, that’s exactly it. Are they set goals, they start setting goals right away. We’re gonna be over here. It’s like, okay, well, if I know I want to lose 10 pounds well how much do I weigh right now? Okay, if I want to run a marathon faster, how fast do I want to run it right now. And so you know, assessment can be as simple as meeting notes doesn’t have to be six months of stakeholder engagement. But here’s the thing, if you skip this step, you have skipped the part where people need to be involved in and participate. That’s why change doesn’t stick is because people just build a plan, and they never have a chance to give their input.
Nicole: You know what, Julie, I think most people really do want to help their leaders. And your point about like, you know, the the leader assumes, and they’re off and running and setting goals, and people are like, whoa, wait. It’s not that they’re resistant, or evil or something. It’s just like, they want to understand their part. And they do connect the dots. And like if this business doesn’t survive, I gotta go get my resume together. I mean, like, I mean, people get it, don’t you think they get it?
Julie: Yeah, 100%. And also, they get that they’re gonna have to be the ones enacting the change, most likely. So you know, they want to participate. And we make the assumption sometimes as leaders that people know how to participate, and they don’t. So here’s that step where you can stop, push, pause and make change feel like it has a frame. It’s not going to go on forever. And that’s how they trust it having a process in place.
Nicole: Absolutely. Okay. And so we assess where we are. And then we benchmark right. And also, I think the thing about benchmarking that’s really important, is so you said the part about you know, if I want to lose 10 pounds, how much do I weigh today? I mean, people get excited when they see progress. If a leader can’t say, look, we had a little win right here, we did good, then there’s nothing to get excited about. Right, you know, everybody’s just like we got this big change going on, I don’t know what’s happening. You know, so being able to benchmarking is absolutely essential. Okay. And then number two is build a plan. So do you have kind of a methodology or some ideas or inspiration for us around how do I build my change plan? How do I do that?
Julie: Yeah, it’s a great question. I think I’ll say two things is one, the plan has to be according to the change you’re trying to enact. So do you need a one page plan or a 20 page plan? And be really strategic about that. Do you need three goals? Do you need five goals? I never recommend honestly, even if it’s a five year strategic plan, or a three month plan on how you’re going to reach a new market in first quarter, I never recommend really more than three, maybe four key focus areas because it’s just too much. You can’t you can’t do it all. But the second thing I would say is you’ve got to keep in mind who your key audience is who’s going to read this plan. So of course, you are going to help your staff or your team, whoever that is, you know, understand this plan, but I bet your owners, your community members, your board, there’s somebody else that’s also going to be looking at this plan. So you’ve got to be thinking about how you are writing it so that people who are reading it, know what to do with it.
Nicole: I love that. In fact, I just had kind of like the little epiphany, like this thought of like, I might have a version for my actual team, that’s gonna put it into play, and then a version that’s written to the state to the Board of Directors. That’s written in a different way. Because each one of your stakeholder groups in that change, may may have a different need or desire or want out of the change. And you got to make sure you’re highlighting highlighting the right things. I love that. So three focus areas at the most she says and make sure that the plan is written to the audience. Did I get that right?
Julie: You got it.
Nicole: All right, fantastic. Okay. And then I don’t think it’s obvious. It may sound obvious, but I don’t think it’s obvious that the third part is to commit to action, and communicate. So let’s let’s do those separately, because, gosh, commitment is the thing missing and change.
Julie: Yes. 100%. That’s why it doesn’t happen. That’s why again, why people don’t trust it. They don’t trust it. They don’t just trust change, because they don’t see a process and they don’t trust change, because they don’t see it actually happening. I mean, you’re like me, you’re a consultant, you go into these clients, and how many times have we gone in and then people are like, we had a consultant like you last year. We brainstormed these ideas. Filled up a lot of big notepads. I have no idea where they are. So guess how much I want to participate in this meeting. Zero. But because my boss is here, I have to be here, but you’re not really getting my best stuff. And so right away, they don’t trust me, because I’m from the outside. Now. I love those people. I’m like, yep, come with me. I can I can poke your buttons, because I got a different process. But that’s why they don’t they don’t see it.
Nicole: That’s right. That’s right. And, you know, I think too, is there’s, I don’t know what you experienced, Julie, I’m pretty sure it’s the same thing I experienced, is that we’re not asking for commitment. It’s like we assume commitment. And when we do change, I often tell leaders is like, you know, sometimes we can do this thing. And it’s very textbook organization development. But like, we need to create a charter, like a team charter, or a team contract or a team agreement, that, you know, I am on board for this change plan that we just did in our last section, right, your second law, which is get your plan together.
And I am committed to supporting it and like commitment looks like, you know, showing up on time, and, you know, meeting deadlines and doing what I say I will do, and if I have a if I disagree, I’ll bring it to the table, I won’t talk about it in the break room or whatever. You know, it’s like, you know, like, I think a lot of times commitment is like defining, like a lot of the behaviors around the work that needs to be done. What are your thoughts on that?
Julie: I love that. And I think the other thing I would offer is the idea of building agreement versus building consensus. So, right, change doesn’t mean, you know, in the assessment, and the first and the red mangrove phase, everybody gets to have their inputs, kind of like voting. If you don’t like the outcome, you need to vote when it’s time to vote. But when you vote, it doesn’t mean the person you want to win is going to win. Okay, that’s consensus. And that’s, that’s just the truth of the matter.
And the same thing happens with change. It’s like I gave my ideas. All right over here, I don’t see that my ideas were taken into account. All right, if I trust my leader, and I trust the process, I will trust that they have made the best decision possible, given everything that they are, you know, under pressure with, or also that they see that I may not be able to see. But if you explain that from the beginning, that we’re after consensus, not agreement, then people relax into it a little bit more and start to understand that.
Nicole: Yeah, and, and I think too, it’s it there’s like a certain maturity, dare I say that, or emotional intelligence. I mean, like, this is really the part where emotional intelligence kicks into the change process is when I do realize, okay, I’m not gonna let my hurt feelings over the fact that my ideas aren’t being used, prevent the whole company from moving forward. I’m not going to be a barrier that’s in the way, right. So I absolutely love that. Yeah. And, you know, just to give an example, everybody, we don’t attend this particular church anymore because we, we moved, but one of the things that the pastor did in one of my past churches is he would never talk about politics, but he would always pray he’d say, and please give wisdom you know, back to wisdom from the wild.
Okay, and hello. Politics is wild. You know, please give wisdom and discernment and good judgment to those who govern our cities, our states and our counties. And he would say that like, every time, and I was like, oh, that is so fantastic. Because like, whether you like who’s in office or not, they’re in office. So let’s support them, you know, the best that we can, right. So support the change, even if you can’t agree with it right now. Right. To your point, the leaders probably are trying to do probably are trying to do the right thing. Okay, okay. All right. And then the final thing that you said, your third law, keep me straight. Third law of change is committing to action, commitment, but then also communicating. I think this is the most important one. So it’s taking my breath away. So tell me a little bit about communicating the change.
Julie: Right? Well, and we’re also still under the first law.
Nicole: You gotta keep me straight. I don’t have an outline over here, I’m trying to put it together.
Julie: You’re good, you’re good. It’s just that there’s so much we can learn from nature. I’m like, the mangroves help us. And so here it says the communication is, we don’t need everybody to know everything about this change. We need some people to take action on this change, we need some people to be aware of this change. And we need some people just be bought in. So here’s the example. I’m going to implement a new IT system for my department head or my department, and I’m the department head. Okay, well, obviously, the people that are going to need to do something about that are the people using the software, right?
But the people who need to be bought in are potentially the other department heads because they’re going to interface with your department and take action, you may need your CEO if you’re not the CEO, if you need your CEO, your COO to be bought into this support. And so the way you’re communicating to each of these people is different. But also the messenger is different. So are you the best person to communicate to the CEO? Probably. Are you the best person to communicate to each department head? Maybe. Also, you could bring along some of your key team members, because if you’re leading sales, and you do work really close with operations, well, you’re probably going to want some people who work closer to the front line talking about why this change is important to the people on the other team talking to the frontline, right?
So that’s why communication is super important to be strategic. Because we’re not always looking for the same outcome. But I have learned the hard way as I’m sure many leaders have if they have not if they’re being honest, that when you are the wrong messenger. Oh my goodness, are you the wrong messenger. And you can undo trust very quickly if you’re the wrong messenger for the change.
Nicole: Absolutely. I think you are right on. Absolutely right on. Okay, so communication, you may be the right person, you may not be the right person, you got to identify other communicators on your team. And you got to make sure that the message is correct for each particular person you’re giving it to. So again, I think change is complicated, like the actual change could be complicated, but how you address it can also be complicated, but you got to slow down to do it right. You got to figure out the best practices.
Julie: You got it.
Nicole: I think that Julie’s book can help you and don’t miss this, it’s coming out in January, everybody let me tell you what it is again. Wisdom from the Wild: The Nine Unbreakable Laws of Leadership. Okay, so I think we’re gonna have time to talk about the next law. So tell me about the next unbreakable or yes, unbreakable law of leadership. Thank you.
Julie: Yeah, no, you got it. So yeah, the next unbreakable law, so we are sticking in this change bubble, if you will, my change circle. The next unbreakable law is about some, an animal that I think is fascinating, but not everybody do, which is about spiders. And so the next the next unbreakable law, is if you are distracted by fear, you will miss the opportunity. So my main point in this chapter, so remember, I told you that the second laws in each circle are is a little funky. This is my funky one, like what we learned about change from spiders? Like yes, you can, because some people love spiders, and some people don’t. And I happen to love spiders, but even when I love spiders, I’m still surprised by them when I turn on the light and I’m like oh, there you are.
Okay, there you are. Back outside. Like, I’m not gonna kill you, but you leave me maybe just don’t live in my house right now. But to me, that’s that’s the awareness around people deal with change differently. And we can’t assume, we assume that everybody’s comfortable with it, or we assume the opposite. Everybody’s scared by that. And that’s not the case. And so you can learn how to harness people’s comfortability or willingness to participate based on their unique approach to change overall, or maybe their unique approach to this particular change you’re trying to work through.
Nicole: Okay, awesome. So you can’t live in fear or you’re going to miss the opportunity. I wanted everybody to get that. That’s tweetable everybody hashtag wisdom from the wild. Okay. All right. So fear, don’t miss the opportunity. Okay, so we don’t want to live in that fear. How do you help people get over the fear? How do you do that? How does a leader move people past fear to look at the opportunity?
Julie: It’s a really good question. It you start by acknowledging the fear exists, we can’t just skip over it. It’s the same thing we would do with a kid in our lives. It’s like, let me just acknowledge the fact that you’re kind of scared to get up, get up on this diving board for the first time. Let me walk with you. We walk with people. Leadership is not always about in front and behind, right? So for me fear is about walking alongside them. Let me acknowledge yep, it is fearful. Okay, now, let me explain to you why this change is happening. Or let me get your ideas and then acknowledge that they still might be afraid and that is okay.
But what we need them to do is participate, take action, we need something from them. But we can help them through that fear by maybe identifying another person on the team that could be with them, by by giving respects to where they come from, and why they’re fearful. I mean, maybe they’ve just been through, you know, especially right now a situation where they’ve lost their job. And so now they’re in a situation like, oh, gosh, I know, I’m a little nervous again, well, you’re dealing with fight or flight at that point, right, basil. And you can’t get past that as Maslow’s hierarchy. If people don’t feel safe and comfortable, you can’t get anything out of them.
They can’t learn let alone function on the job. So you have to just be it used to be a human, how about like that. I’m gonna say it like that. You have to be a human, acknowledged people are afraid and then be vulnerable as a leader. Yeah, you know what, sometimes I’m afraid too, and this change kind of scares me. But we need to do it for whatever reason. Sometimes people told us so, but sometimes the markets gonna depend depend on it. And if we don’t innovate, someone’s gonna come up behind us.
Nicole: Oh my gosh, isn’t that the truth? Okay, yes. So, don’t miss this. Here are all the downloads I just got. Acknowledge that the fear exists, and walk with people. It’s not always out in front. And then get their ideas, ask them to participate. And then this title of this book came in my mind, Julie, my grammar is not great today, excuse me. Came in my mind. And it was this book that I’ve read called Do It Afraid. So sometimes, you just gotta invite people. I know you’re, I know, you’ve got this fear, you’re afraid but we just got to do it afraid.
So let’s just do it. I think giving permission to people to just experience their emotions hello, is a thing because like you said, they’re in fight or flight. You might give them another person to partner with. I loved that tip you threw in there, you might not even know you threw that in there. And then revisit Maslow’s hierarchy, right? Make sure people are safe. And then they can move into self actualization at the top where they’re like, I am the change right? It is exciting. Okay. All right. So we’ve got mangroves and spiders. Are we still on spiders? Or where are we at?
Julie: Now? You’re good spiders are the unbreakable law number two.
Nicole: Okay. All right. So take me unbreakable law number three.
Julie: So unbreakable law number three is our motivating finish to thinking about how you are leading change. And it is when you can’t see the finish line, let purpose be your guide. And the animal that guides us through this unbreakable law is a sea turtle. Because sea turtles. Again, if you were to come with me on the beach to Florida here, and if I could take you with me at night in the summertime, we might be fortunate enough to find a sea turtle who’s come out of the ocean is laying her nest. But once she lays that nest of 100 eggs, approximately, she leaves and these baby sea turtles stay under the sand, they will hatch a few weeks later, they’ll crawl up to the surface and what’s literally called a boil.
And then they go under the cover of darkness as they’re about. They’re about you know, only a few inches big here, they’re gonna go there baby flippers carry them as far as they can get in the ocean until they can get under cover of a big floating mass of seaweed. By themselves. There is no adult sea turtle around right. So they’re crawling to the survival rate for sea turtles about one and 100, right. So it’s really difficult to be sea turtle. But years and years later, the female sea turtles are going to travel miles and miles through ocean water back to the same area in which they were hatched. And so that sea turtle, that female sea turtle is navigating with the magnetic force of the earth.
Basically, they’re not using GPS, there’s no mentor by them. They’re not leading the team. They’re literally going by themselves. And so I can imagine how treacherous that journey is. And the hardest part of change is when you can’t when you know you’re close, you’re no you’re close to the chain, the finish line, you’ve got everything in place, but you can’t quite yet see it. It’s the hardest part. And that’s when you have to dig in as an individual and let purpose be your guide. Why you started down the road in the first place is what’s going to get you across that finish line.
Nicole: That’s fantastic. That’s fantastic. And all of us love the sea turtles, love them. All right. And that’s why you got you can’t have your lights on on the back of your beach house and, you know, pay attention people. Alright, you gotta save the turtles. One in 100. Okay, so if you can’t see the finish line, purpose must be our guide. So even if you feel like a little baby turtle, you got to hightail your butt to the water and get under the sea weed. And that’s just it. And you’ve got to find that motivation, survival motivation. And I do think that people, sometimes, especially in bigger organizations, feel comfortable that everything’s gonna be okay.
Or companies that have been in place a long time. But as we know, so many different things are being disrupted out there, that we can’t be comfortable. We have to go out of our comfort zone and get and get cooking. Alright, so those are the three unbreakable laws of leadership around change. Do we have time to go through the others? Do you have time for that? Can you give us a high level on 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9?
Julie: Yeah, I got as much time as you want. But if you want to, I can just give you an overview, let’s say of teamwork and pick one that’s my favorite. Do you want to do that?
Nicole: Okay. Yeah, let’s do that. Let’s do teamwork is her second set of three. Correct?
Julie: You got it. Yeah, so this is all about how to lead teams in these three laws. So that’s distinctly different than books or manuals that are going to help you figure out how to interact with teams. And that’s also super important. But I really wanted to dial in and help leaders think about, alright, how can I lead teams more effectively. And the, so I talked about the three animals, I talk about our naked mole rats, termites and giraffes and coral reefs, those are the three animals in line of the three unbreakable laws. But the one I will pick on is the coral. And I’ll pick on the coral because that’s unbreakable law number six, a team without a foundation is really just a group.
And so that law has everything to do with the fact that if we were to jump in the water right now and be scuba diving, and I were to take you over to a coral reef and ask you what you notice, you’re going to tell me you notice the sharks swimming in the barracuda swimming in, the cool little tube warm that’s popping up, the lobster that’s walking over here, the stingray that’s hiding under the sand. But the thing that people most often overlook is the reason the coral reef habitat ecosystem is there in the first place, which is the coral. And it is alive and anchoring this whole ecosystem. Without the coral, nothing is here. Also, coral is a little tiny animals related to a jellyfish, it lives. It’s basically like an upside down jellyfish living in its own limestone cup. But they’re connected by mucus.
And so once one little coral animal gets infected with something, it can infect the other animals around it. So very, very quickly, the entire foundation of this ecosystem can be eroded. So for teamwork, for leading teamwork, again, we make two assumptions. We make assumptions that the parameters are in place by which the team should operate. But that is not always the case. When I hear leaders say, well, we’re just gonna kick this meeting off, and everybody knows why we’re here. So we’re just gonna get right into the business like, do they? Do they know why they’ve been picked for this team? Is it a six month project based team? Or is it an operational team that’s going to go on for a long time? How is the team being governed? Can we I mean, honestly, this sounds simple, but it is not.
But can anybody come to this team meeting? Can guest speakers just show up? What happens if I’m five minutes late? Like what’s the etiquette? All of this is important, because you’ve got to make people feel comfortable so they can participate. And then the other thing that happens is we overlook and take for granted at times the very people that anchor our teams, which are the team members themselves. Which are like the coral, we just skip over that we keep going, going, going. But if we erode away at our team members, and don’t often take them as, you know, value them for their individual contributions the way they need to be. We are not going to have a team. We’re just going to have a group of people and a group of people does not accomplish what a team can.
Nicole: Oh my gosh, I love everything you just said but the but the first thing is write this down all you leaders. A team without a foundation is just a group. I love that. Now, the word mucus is not pretty, but it does relate to coral. Am I correct?
Julie: It’s one of my favorite words.
Nicole: I mean, like I was just coaching somebody this morning and I was talking about you know how you know any more if the leader doesn’t say we’re getting in the clubhouse, we’re gonna cut our fingers we’re gonna push our fingers together we’re gonna swap blood. But you’re saying the coral gets their mucus all intertwined, right? Yeah. And so that’s so so important. I mean, like we’ve got to have skin, mucous, blood in the game to be a team and I adore that. And I got to tell you a quick story. I went to on a bucket list trip, a bucket list trip.
I went to the I went to Australia and I want to the the Barrier Reef. Do I have it right in my brain? Yes. Okay. And so here we are on the they were going through the Whitsundays. Look that up. I never heard of it till I got there. So I’m going through the Whitsundays. And it’s like, I’m in some movie. I’m expecting Gandalf to show up on some mountain over here. I mean, it was crazy, y’all. And when we got on the boat to go out to the Great Barrier Reef that young men and women that were the the environmentalists, the, give me a word there.
Julie: Naturalists?
Nicole: Naturalists that were leading this, they were saying to us, they’re like, now, y’all are a little late to the game to see the Great Barrier Reef, because a lot of what you’re going to see is no longer alive. And we were like, what, what, really? And so we got down there. And there was some beautiful yellow, some beautiful orange, some beautiful reds and beautiful blues and beautiful green but big pieces that were white. That were I guess dead. Do I have my story straight, Julie?
Julie: Yeah, yeah, you’re right. Yeah.
Nicole: And it broke my heart a little bit. Like, I’m still a little wrecked by it, you can probably tell. I mean, like, I was just like, oh, you know, this is horrifying. And so they said, you know, please, please have respect for the reef. And I think that’s like the same thing. Everybody should wake up and go, please have respect for the foundation of this group. Because without it, we’re gonna die. I mean, is that too strong?
Julie: No, I mean, I mean, to me, it’s like, if you have groups of people together in an organization, they have to be functioning together as a team. You don’t need just a bunch of people like doing their job. I mean, you you know, you do to a certain point, but, but it has to be a team. Even an organization that’s a huge multinational organization of 100,000 people. I mean, my goodness, you’re a big team. It’s why we use the word we overuse the word family a lot. You got to be on the same page.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. Oh, my gosh, I just love these these examples from the wild. I think you are a genius. Okay. All right. So let’s do 7, 8, 9. And then maybe we could have a second time you come back and we’ll play some more around these. I don’t want to rush it. But I do want to make sure we hit all nine. So tell me about 7, 8, 9.
Julie: Yeah, I’m going to tell you about 7, 8, 9. And then I’m going to try to sneak a couple in here to talk about because the eight nine are my favorite. Okay, so 7, 8, 9 are about resilience. And that to me is basically the fact that you need to lead from the inside out. You’re leading change all the time, you’re leading teams, but if you don’t show up as a leader ready to lead, I mean, we know this in theory, but the animal kingdom really shows us that in practice. Because these things the reason I call them they’re unbreakable laws, because there are things that are biological certainties.
Okay, so right here in 7, 8 and 9. The first law we learn from is, we learn from pelicans. From brown pelicans. The second law is about sea cucumbers, and the third laws about cheetahs. So here’s here’s what I mean, are the biological certainties. So I’m going to pick on sea cucumbers and cheetahs. So unbreakable law, number eight, is you are wired not just to survive, but to thrive. And so the short story behind that, because I could talk to you for you know, hours and hours. I won’t do that to you.
Nicole: And FYI, she can talk to you for hours and hours. She does retreats on this stuff, and she’s a professional speaker. So you know, all that, okay. You are wired not just to survive, but to thrive. Did I get it?
Julie: Right. You got it right? Because a sea cucumber is a little animal that lives on the bottom of the ocean floor. It’s related to sea stars. But see stars get all the attention, right? Everybody wants to see the sea star, but the sea cucumber literally looks like a sausage, sometimes depending on the species. But here’s the thing. If a predator comes over to this sea cucumber, and wants to eat it, the sea cucumbers defense is to literally throw up its guts. It’s called evisceration. It’s throwing up your guts. Two things are gonna happen. Either A, the predator is gonna say, great. I’ll just take some guts and eat the guts and it will go on. Or B maybe that’s enough to scare the predator off. If the predator chooses to eat the guts of the sea cucumber. The sea cucumber can regrow its own guts. I mean, it could regrow its own guts.
Nicole: I want to be a sea cucumber.
Julie: Right, right. So the analogy and the examples I walked through and the tactics I give people are all around the idea that literally, we have times as leaders as humans, when we feel scared to death, like we’re going to throw up. Sometimes we actually throw up. But remember, it’s a biological certainty that we are wired. We’re wired we have all these strategies that we can tap into that it’s going to help us survive, but not just that, to thrive to get through it. So you can tap into these instinctual nature reserves that you have, in order to build your resiliency, use your resiliency and get through that situation. Successful and healthy and happy.
Nicole: I love that. And I mean, I we all have a moment. And I want you to do that after you get done listening to this podcast, I want you to sit quietly. And think about a time that you thought literally you’re going to be sick on your stomach from a leadership experience and how you overcame it. I think sometimes people don’t realize how strong or innovative they can be. And I did that’s mind boggling. I just think our creator is unbelievable to design a sea cucumber to do this. I mean, does anybody did anybody know this? I did not know this. Okay. Right. That’s why we have Julie Henry here today because she is teaching us all sorts of things we didn’t know. Okay, so everybody, hashtag I want to be a sea cucumber. Write that down. All right. So tell us about cheetahs. And that will bring us home that will be the unbreakable law number nine.
Julie: Unbreakable law number nine, which is really the first unbreakable law I wrote for this book, which is called even cheetahs slow down. So if you are to think about a cheetah right now, if you ask your listeners, what do you think of when you think of cheetahs? You know, Nicole, what do you think of when you think of cheetahs?
Nicole: I think fast. Back legs in front of front legs. I mean, we’re hightailing it out of here.
Julie: Yep, you’re exactly right. We spent all of our time and energy and in awe of the fastest land animal, I mean, that is amazing. But the majority of a cheetah’s time is not spent running. The majority that she does time is spent resting, prepping for the next time they run. How often as leaders are we running and running and running and running and running. And we are built to slow down. Biological certainty. A cheetah cannot run at top speed for minutes, let alone hours. And why do we think we can do that as leader?
So you’re either going to slow down intentionally, or nature is going to help you slow down by your body, mind and spirit breaking down. But here’s the other part of this law that I love. When the cheetah is resting, she does not rest. In my opinion. If I were to ask a cheetah, she is probably not resting thinking, oh, gosh, you know, that was really stupid decision. And I really wish that I was more prepared. And I really should have said it this way. And we’re second guessing. And over analyzing, just getting super critical about ourselves.
My assumption looking at this cheetah is that she’s just resting. And the next time yeah, maybe she’ll go left instead of right. Maybe she’ll be successful or not. But she gets up, and she does it again. And the other cheetahs are watching her her cubs in this case, right? Her her little babies might be watching her. So that is my reminder that even cheetahs slow down, all leaders will slow down. And it’s my hope that you’ll use this law to not just remind yourself, but to give yourself permission and give yourself reassurance that it is the right thing to do. It is how we were made. And it’s how we’re designed to be.
Nicole: Oh my gosh, that is the best advice ever. Okay, everybody you need to rest. And I will tell you, people are delusional about this rest because when they are working, they’re not working at a 100%. Like, you know, if I’m exhausted from last run, I am not going to get up to speed. I’m just not going to. But if you let yourself rest. Let your cheetah self rest, then when it’s time to chase after the next opportunity, which is exactly what she’s doing right to feed the cubs. She’s gonna be able to get her max speed.
And I think that is absolutely essential. Alright, so great advice for leaders. All right, Julie Henry, you are amazing in my life and in the lives of my of my listeners. So hey, everybody, you gotta go get the book that’s in January. Wisdom from the Wild: The Nine Unbreakable Laws of Leadership from the Animal Kingdom. Julie, tell us if we if we cannot wait to get a hold of you. Where would we get a hold of you? And where and when can we get the book?
Julie: So you can reach out to me on Instagram. I’m on Instagram. Julie C Henry, on Twitter, not quite as often on Twitter, but you know, yeah. The book is on sale on Amazon. I also know that it’s actually already in some local bookstores depending on it’s a little bit crazy with COVID shipping. So I know my friend in Chicago just picked it up at her local bookstore. So it might just be there. If you go there, but if you’d like to shop independent, they can order it as well. But January 4th, it’s coming out.
Nicole: That is so fantastic. That’s wonderful. All right. So Julie Henry, it’s been an absolute delight to be with you. If I had one special listener that wanted wanted you to download one more little drop of advice. What would be your final word. Give us the final word.
Julie: The final word is I encourage you as nature does to lead in the way that you are born to lead. That’s how nature acts. Cheetahs don’t try to be naked mole rats, sea cucumbers don’t try to be pelicans. They’re uniquely designed for their niche and you are too.
Nicole: Beautiful. Thank you so much for being on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. It’s been an absolute delight and a wild time.
Julie: Absolutely, it was so awesome to be here.
Voiceover: Ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her strategies, systems and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email Nicole@nicolegreer.com. And be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at nicolegreer.com.
