As a 21st-century leader, you NEED global communication skills…
With the rise of remote work, business is only becoming more international…
But how can you bridge cultural differences to lead your team in a global setting?
My guest, Heather Hansen, is a Global Communication Consultant who helps top global leaders foster unmuted communication cultures across global and remote teams.
In this episode, she’ll share how global leaders can become better listeners and ensure that every voice is heard.
Listen to learn:
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The meaning of authentic adaptability
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How to avoid linguistic bias
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The power of perception
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How to break bad listening habits
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Why “bad English is good for business”
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And more
Mentioned in this episode:
Transcript
Heather Hansen: As leaders, we need to really encourage our team members to contribute and then acknowledge that when they do.
Voiceover: You’re listening to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast with professional speaker, coach and consultant Nicole Greer.
Nicole Greer: Welcome everybody to the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. My name is Nicole Greer, and they call me the vibrant coach and I am here today with none other than Heather Hansen. She is a communication expert and Heather Hansen is a global communication consultant, a TEDx speaker, a trainer and an author. We’re gonna get a major download today, everybody. Heather helps top global leaders show up, speak up and inspire action in an ever changing world.
She focuses on fostering unmuted communication cultures where every voice is heard, resulting in greater inclusion, innovation and efficiency across remote and global teams. Along with private leadership communication coaching. Heather facilitates group training courses and consults on a number of topics related to global communication. And Heather is also an industry expert for NUS Business School’s Executive Education programs where she runs modules on communication, presentation, oh, and I love this last one, storytelling skills. We are in for a treat everybody. Please welcome the author of Unmuted, Heather Hansen. How are you?
Heather: Thank you so much, Nicole. I’m doing great. Thank you. How are you? I’m so happy to be here.
Nicole: Yeah, we right before we started the podcast, we’re comparing what time it was. It’s 8:30 in the morning and Concord, North Carolina, and then tell them where you are and what time it is there.
Heather: 8:30 at night in Singapore. So you get to start your day, and I’m ending mine.
Nicole: That’s right. Well, it’ll be a great way to start. And hopefully for you, it’ll be a great way to end your day. That’s wonderful. Well, thank you for staying up late. I’d already be in bed by now. Don’t tell anybody but you know, my bedtime is early early. So Heather, I am collecting definitions of leadership. What is your definition of leadership?
Heather: For me, I believe leadership always comes back to communication. So it has to do with being able to express your vision and not only be able to express it, but inspire others to follow you. I think that’s the absolute key to being a good leader. So I might be a little bit biased. But for me, I believe leadership really is communication.
Nicole: Yeah, I believe so too. I mean, because we can’t we can’t follow you like lead. We can’t follow if you’re leading. If we don’t know what where we’re going, why we’re going, why we’re going there. What we’re going to do when we get there. It’s very important. So you have kind of found yourself in this space, where you’re a leadership expert in terms of communication, probably various and sundry other ideas, too. But communication is where you really lean in. So tell me what drew you to this field of studying and becoming an expert in communication.
Heather: I think it’s always been really close to my heart. You know, I was raised in California. I was one of the speech and debate kids, I went all the way to Nationals. I was an All American on top of everything in speech and debate. And it was such a big part of my life, I thought I was going to go off to law school and make a career out of it. And then I ended up falling in love with a Dane and moving to Denmark after graduation, studying linguistics further after I finished my studies, university studies in the States in international studies, language and society in German language. And then went off to do more linguistic studies.
And then life brought us to Singapore. And we ended up in this very international environment where I could bring all of my skills together with cross cultural communication, presentation skills, articulation training, so we can be understood in global environments. And then pairing that with how do we connect and build strong relationships, in our social lives as well as in the workplace. So these are all skills, you know, that run across our entire lives and all of our relationships. And so I think I’ve always had a passion for it. I’ve always been very interested in how we are communicating across cultures and languages.
How we use English as our lingua franca to bring people together and sometimes divide us. And so it’s such a complex environment to look at and study and it can go in so many different directions. So what I was trying to do with Unmuted was really bring all of that together. Where we look at it from a very holistic standpoint, instead of just be a better presenter or learn negotiation skills or build empathy. It goes into a lot more than that and how to be conscious and confident and connected in your communication so you can be a better leader moving forward in this new future that we’re building together.
Nicole: Yeah, I love that. I love that. Yeah, so what’s life like in Singapore? For those of us who have wanderlust we haven’t been there. What’s it like there?
Heather: I love Singapore. I’ve spent 12 of the last 16 years here. I had one little four year bump back to Denmark again and back. But this is really home you know, I moved here in my mid 20s. I started my company here. It’s an incredibly international environment. So about a fifth of the population is all international. And I mean, it’s a city state of only 5,000,000, five and a quarter million. Well, no reaching six now million people. So it’s it’s very, very interesting to be here. Every conversation you have is international, multicultural, multilingual. You know, all the all my kids friends, they have parents from two different countries just like us. You know, they’re all Third Culture kids growing up here in Singapore. My girls were born here.
And so it’s just fascinating. I’m constantly inspired. And then of course, you know, coming from California, I like the heat, but it’s a very humid heat here. So it’s the same temperature all year round. And I don’t even know Fahrenheit anymore. I’ve been gone for too long, but it’s up at about 20, 30 degrees Celsius year round, and about 90% humidity. So it’s very much tropical rainforest. So when I go on my walks in the morning, I see monitor lizards. I had an otter walk across my path today, and lizards and turtles, and it’s so much fun being here. It’s really a wonderful place to be. And and an incredible energy as well. The people here and the advancement and the forward thinking and future thinking, it’s fantastic.
Nicole: Yeah, that is fantastic. Well, now I’m sold, I gotta get a ticket. All right, so everybody write that down. Get your ticket to Singapore so you can take a walk in the morning.
Heather: Definitely and now as of Monday, no more masks indoors, we are finally opening up. It’s wonderful. Yeah, it’s been a very long time coming. It’s been quite controlled throughout COVID. And but you know, we also had very few cases, and it was handled very well. So, but we’re looking forward to Monday, for sure.
Nicole: All right. I love it. I’m excited for you. Absolutely. All right, so communication, obviously is one of the most important skills for successful leaders. But everybody don’t miss the fact that she already said you got to learn to build strong relationships, build your empathy, learn to negotiate all these different things that are the little nuances of communication. So tell us a little bit about what the most important skills for a successful leader are. And like if somebody’s sitting there thinking, man, I’m a great SME. I’m a subject matter expert in whatever. I’m an IT professional, I’m all about the operations, I’m all about the manufacturing, whatever, you know, little place that they’re at. This thing they call a soft skill of communication, which I don’t think is soft at all, I think it’s one of the most challenging things to become an expert in. So so how did people get started and become a great communicator? And what skills do they start using to get that communication where it needs to be?
Heather: Looking from a very high level, I think the most important skill any leader needs is knowing how to acknowledge the contribution of the team members. I think, especially in our our current world, people want to be seen, they want to feel heard, they want to feel like they belong. And as a leader, you must be able to acknowledge, make them feel seen and heard, and acknowledge their contribution. And what that means is you have to be a really good listener. So although I wrote the book called Unmuted, we really do also need to know when to hit the mute button, and when to listen and when to give space for others. Because one of the big reasons I wrote it was I felt that we have been listening to the same demographic of leadership for so long, we’ve been hearing the same ideas for so long.
And look where it’s gotten us. I mean, our world is falling apart and just about every dimension. There’s got to be better answers, and we just aren’t hearing them. We aren’t inviting them to speak up. We aren’t listening to those ideas. For some reason, they aren’t getting through, and there must be people out there. And if you’re listening right now, I’m talking to you. There must be people out there with really good ideas. And for some reason, they’re holding themselves back. Maybe they’re in a toxic environment, maybe they’re lacking the confidence. They don’t realize how great their ideas really are. And maybe they feel it’s all been said before, who are they to say it. But as leaders, we need to really encourage our team members to contribute and then acknowledge that when they do.
Nicole: I love that. Yeah. You made an interesting comment. You said we’ve been listening to the same demographic for so long. And I’m assuming you’re saying about leadership. Where to take the world, what could fix the world. Ideas to get things repaired. You know, my dad used to say the world’s going to hell in a handbasket. And he used to say that in 1970.
Heather: You know, I think every generation says it, you know. And I mean, you wonder, is it really getting worse? Or is it just we come to this realization at the same age of our lives? I don’t know every generation says the same thing. Right. But it does feel you know, the crises that we’re faced with now between pandemics, environmental issues, war, famine, gas prices, I mean, you name it. We just have so many really extreme crises happening all at the same time and all over the world in a much more global sense than we’ve seen in the past.
You know, it used to I, when I was growing up, you know, you can ignore stuff that was going on in other places. You didn’t think about it so much. And, and now the world is just so interconnected, you can sit in my hometown in California, and never leave your living room. The world’s coming to you, whether you like it or not. Whether that’s because of your gas prices, or it’s because you have this remote work situation now and you have things outsourced to different countries, you suddenly have colleagues in other places. So the world has really shifted now and we need some new skills, I think as well around this cross cultural piece. Understanding cross culture is also just interpersonal. Intercultural is interpersonal.
So even if I grew up down the street from you, we can have very different ideas about life, we can have very different upbringings, even if we went to the same school, our home lives could have been very different. And we have different personalities and interests and hobbies. And we’re parts of other subcultures within the society that have shaped us in certain ways. So knowing how to handle difference, I think is going to be more and more important and knowing how to communicate about difference is going to be more important as well.
Nicole: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. Yeah. So I have a confession to make to you, Heather, and to all the people who are listening. So I found this series on Netflix called Indian Matchmaking.
Heather: I just binged that all weekend. I just binged it. Literally, it is Thursday. And I watched it like all day, Saturday and Sunday. I watched the whole first and second season in one go. Okay, I’m on the same page with you, I confess as well.
Nicole: Okay. So the reason why she’s like so excited is because it is the most interesting thing. So like, I mean, I haven’t been to India. But there’s this woman who is the Indian matchmaker. And what’s so crazy about this, this show is A you’re gonna learn all about India and the the traditions and that kind of thing, which I think is fascinating. But there’s, there’s like a cultural upset going on in India. So they show all these older couples who sit down, like, oh, we had an arranged marriage, and we were friends first.
And then we fell in love. And then we fall in love again, every day or whatever. You’re sitting there and as a Westerner, you’re like, what? Arranged marriage? You can’t believe it. And these people have been married for 38 years, and they’re so happy. Then this younger generation is struggling to fall in love, because they’re not allowing the arranged thing to happen. Although they are hiring a matchmaker, they still want the Western flavor of it. But anyway, my point.
Heather: And they have their list of 75 requirements.
Nicole: But but the crazy thing is is like the upset that’s going on within the Indian culture itself. It’s like not only do we not understand the other cultures, like maybe we should be curious about, but like, there’s major changes happening within our culture. And I think that’s true in America. We’re having a cultural shift here, too. There’s a lot going on. The word culture, it’s a thing. That’s why Nicole wants to build a vibrant culture. We want to talk about culture.
Heather: There you go. Yeah, t’s exactly that. It’s exactly that. It is to build a vibrant culture. It’s exactly that, I love that whole phrase and concept. Because that’s what we need to do. The world is becoming more and more vibrant. And we have so many different people and ideas, and we just need more of it. I think. So it but there does come a certain degree of self awareness, and also understanding the world around you that needs to be there in order to communicate well, in those kinds of situations. You know, I’ve been abroad now for 20 years.
20 years, when I go home to California, they say I talk funny. So I really, I’ve really changed quite a bit, I think as far as my mentality, and you learn so much about yourself and your own culture when you’re faced with difference. And it’s that shock and that feeling of being uncomfortable of wait, what do you mean, an arranged marriage? You know, like, this is crazy. And then it starts to teach you oh, well, why is that hard for me to understand? What is it that I value that makes that difficult for me?
It’s because I value freedom, I value choice. I value love, I value, you know, what, what is it? And I don’t think that they don’t value love. It’s just expressed in a different way in that marriage process. So you know, it’s when you start to dig into these other cultures and learn about people who are different from you that you start to learn a lot about yourself and what you stand for and what your values are. And that’s probably the most important thing in leadership. Really. Do you know what you stand for? Because leaders, we have a lot higher expectations of leaders right now I think.
Nicole: Absolutely. And in her book, Unmuted, she talks about Chapter One, who are you? And so I think what you’re talking about with core values, is that a big part of what leaders need to figure out? Like who am I? What do I stand for what values are at my core?
Heather: Absolutely. Because as we’ve gone through this great resignation, renegotiation, reawakening, re whatever you want to call it, right?
Nicole: Reshuffling is the the latest one I’ve heard.
Heather: Reshuffling. All of it. Put a re in front of anything. And that’s what we’ll call it. Through this, we’re now seeing people want a lot more out of work, right? They want to go to work and be fulfilled. They want their passion to be lived through work. They want to feel that they’re making a difference in the world. And I think people have always wanted that, but now they’re demanding it. And if they can’t get that they’ll leave. And so as leaders, leaders, now there’s huge expectations. They need to be everything to everyone.
They’re expected to have the strong vision and inspire their own people. They’re also expected to stand for something and have a personal brand and be on LinkedIn and speak openly and make statements about, you know, certain things that are happening in the world. And how are you going to react and respond to world events? How are you going to stand up? And what will you stand up for? What is it you stand for? So you have to really take some time to reflect on the core values that we have.
And that’s why I start the book talking about who are you? Defining values, having more self awareness because that’s where it all starts. If you don’t know yourself, it’s very difficult to connect and interact with others. Yet, we do that all the time. We kind of fake it till we make it because if you stopped anybody on the street and said, what are your core values? I really doubt anyone would have an answer for you. It’s not something we go around thinking about a lot. So I think as leaders, we really need to focus on that a lot more in in this current age, for sure.
Nicole: I couldn’t agree more. And actually one of one of the exercises that I have when I work with, with individuals, with leaders when I coach with them, is I have a list of 48 core values. And of course, once people start looking at this list of 48 core values, they’re like, that’s me. That’s me. That’s not me. That’s me. That’s not me. And then it opens up their thinking. So, listeners, if you’d like a list of the core values, the vibrant core values, I’d be glad to send them to you. Reach out to me and Nicole@vibrantculture.com. And I’ll make sure you get that list because you don’t want to be that person Heather talked about, what are your core values? And you’re sitting there going I have no clue. I don’t know. The thing is, you do know. I think it’s just you haven’t, like excavated down to put a word around what exactly.
Heather: And I think too, you know, as people look through those lists to try to think of actual stories or choices you’ve made in your life where you’ve behaved and acted in that value. Because I think my problem when I look at those lists, is this like, whew, integrity. Yeah. And oh, responsibility. Yes. Freedom. Yes. Like, it’s like, all the buzzwords that I really want to have as my values. I think, yes, those are my values. And then if I try to actually sit and think, okay, when have I lived those values. Then it becomes a little bit more obvious.
Oh, wait, maybe that responsibility piece isn’t as much a core value because I can think of all these instances where I did not act in that way, or whatever it might be, right? I promise, I have a responsible person. But it’s, it’s about you know, and then you can even ask your team, when have you, if you come up with your top three, ask your team. When have you seen me live this value? When have you seen me not live this value? And can you hold me accountable to it. And I think that’s taking it, you know, a step further in, in really reflecting.
Because I think a lot of times when I look at those lists, I end up choosing my favorite values, and not necessarily ones that I live every day. And that’s what we really have to think about is how am I living them on a daily basis and applying them and inspiring others to follow me in those values, it has to be so meaningful. And so I love that. I think that’s right, where it starts is with you know, really analyzing a list of those. A lot of people don’t even know what values are. So it’s so helps to have something to start with like that.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And, and I love what you’re saying about, you know, it’s got to be real, you’ve got to demonstrate it. And you’ve got to do that analysis of analyze it. You know, one of my favorite values, or one of my core values is learning. And like, you just see that all over me, right? I mean, I’m learning from you right now. Yesterday, I trained people all day long. They were teaching me about finance. I mean, it’s just like, I can’t learn enough. So it’s kind of this thing where like, it’s like, you’re, you know, what’s your favorite food? Well, you know, I, you know, I love pizza, or I love vegetables or whatever your thing is, it’s like you can’t get enough of it, then you know, it’s a core value.
It’s like you’re hungry for it. It’s how you know I look at it. You can’t get enough. Well, I would love to keep kind of going through your book a little bit. Chapter two. Well chapter one we figure out who we are. We do know analyzation. You said self awareness. That’s actually the s in my SHINE coaching methodology. So we’re on the same page. So chapter two talk about the power of perception. And don’t forget the name of her book is Unmuted. You can find it on Amazon, of course. So what do you mean by the power of perception? What do I need to do there to get unmuted?
Heather: Yeah, that is looking at the cross cultural dimension. So how is it that you see the world? What filters are you looking through? What micro cultures are you a part of whether that is the wine lovers club versus, you know, someone who does sports like a martial art. There’s a very specific culture in that. There’s cultures in our mommy groups, you know. I mean, there’s cultures in everything that we do. And we have our own language In that culture. We have our, our own ideas that bring us together our commonalities that brings us together. It could be a book lovers club, it could be a business association, it could be any number of things.
Your industry, your department, you know, if you’re HR versus finance, those are two very different cultures. So when we talk about perception and cross cultural communication, it isn’t just the big C national culture. In fact, that says very little about us. Underneath that we are so much more similar than we are different. But where we find these little niggling daily differences are very often in these small micro cultural differences that we have with the person down the street from us that grew up, you know, less than a mile away. And we expect them to be just like us, because why wouldn’t they be.
But we’re also different, our personalities are different, these cultural influences are different, or upbringings are different. And so that’s what the power of perception is all about. It’s about analyzing what filters are you looking through to see the world? And and how can another person see something so differently? You know, when someone you’re in an argument about something, and they are so adamant that they are right, and you are so adamant that you are right, you can’t believe how can you not see this? Oh, it’s like so clear. How can you not see what I’m seeing? That’s when you have to stop and say, what is it that you see that I don’t see? There’s got to be something that I’m not seeing here, because you are so clear on your position.
So explain it to me, what am I not seeing? And it’s really making that conscious effort to drop the ego. Take that moment of curiosity, curiosity, to think maybe there’s something I don’t know, and try to better understand the other perspective. And that means you have to really move all the way over to their side of the room and look at the world through their eyes, you can’t just always compromise the way we learn in negotiation, just compromise meet in the middle. That doesn’t always work. Sometimes the middle is a mess. And the only real answers are on those extremes. But how do we get there?
And you need to be able to learn how to explain to others what you see that they might not be seeing. And you need to be able to listen to what they’re saying. And there’s always something to learn that we’ve we’ve come to this point in our society where it’s all so black and white. You know, nothing in between. No gray area. And we have to learn how to let go a little bit of being right to find out and be more curious about what else is possible. Yeah, I feel quite strongly about that, actually. You know that there is no, there is no right and wrong.
Nicole: Well, you know, one thing that you you asked in the middle of what you were saying is, you know, you’ve got to ask the person. What are you seeing that? What are you seeing that I don’t see. Help me and really that’s like, help me lose my blind spot. Where am I blind? You know, the word blind spot I hear a lot lately.
Heather: It’s exactly that, yeah, It’s about finding those blind spots in your perception of the world around you. What what are you missing? Because we can’t see it? We don’t know it. We don’t know our unconscious bias. We don’t realize that we’re doing something or saying something or not hearing something. And we need other people to point that out to us. That’s so important.
Nicole: Yeah. I agree. I agree. All right. So you got to get curious, I heard you say. I also heard, I’ll just bring it up a level and say, you know, we’ve got to ask powerful questions. Help me see what I can’t see. And then we got to be aware of our unconscious bias or our blind spots. All right, well, then you talk about how you need to be authentic and I would just harken back to what you were talking about with core values. You know that they have to be authentic. Not your favorite ones. I love that. But they have to be like who you really are. So talk about authentic adaptability that a leader needs to be authentic. Have authentic adaptability. That’s a bunch of syllables.
Heather: Syllables. Yes. We this was the hardest chapter for me to write in the whole book, very honestly speaking. Yeah, it because I do really believe in authenticity that we should all be showing up as our full and complete selves. My problem with it is I think it has been used incorrectly by some people to mean that they can show up as jerks. And that’s not what we mean when we talk about being authentic.
Nicole: That’s exactly right. You don’t have a right to be rude. Come on.
Heather: No, no, you have a right to an opinion. And you can have whatever opinion you like, but it doesn’t give you the right to step all over people in expressing it. And so I was trying to find where is that balance between, you know, when does authenticity become too much? Where’s that line in the sand? Where, if you cross it, no, and I kind of what I was coming up with, as I was researching this, and writing it and talking to a lot of people about it. You know, it’s like what we talked about the rights and responsibilities, you know, you have the right to everything until you like impede on someone else.
You have a responsibility to still care for other people. And so what I’m talking about with authentic adaptability is yes, you need to be authentic to your core values. As long as your core values are not being infringed upon, or you’re not changing who you are, those core values, the rest of it, you need to be adaptable. You have to be flexible. You need to meet people where they are. You have to understand cultural difference. You don’t just show up and say, well, this is me, you just have to accept me. That isn’t what authenticity is about.
So it’s about showing up as your best self for the context and what is appropriate. And, you know, just as we wouldn’t expect, and I don’t think we necessarily should allow for someone to show up to a job interview wearing cut off shorts and a tank top. I mean, depending on the job, right? I mean, talking about like, typical office job, that would be very strange. To see someone show up that way to an interview. Now is does that mean that we are not allowing them to be authentic? Well, this is how I dress. This is what I like, you know? Well, there’s still context. We have to adapt to the context.
And as long as you know, dressing in a in work attire doesn’t go against some kind of core value that you hold, then we should be able to do that. If it does go against a core value, then okay, that’s the wrong job. You need to go find a job where you can wear those clothes. And so it’s about matching your core values to the right environment, and making sure that those are in alignment when you are joining an organization or when you’re leading an organization, that you’re creating a community and culture that’s in alignment with those values, and that you’re attracting people with the same values. And I think that’s key.
So authentic adaptability. I’ve had quite a number of debates with people about this. But that’s what I landed on. But you know, to give the other side of the story, there was a man that I spoke to, and he said, I feel like if I’m going to another country to give a talk or a lecture, and I don’t show up and use my full personality, I know that I might, you know, overstep culturally or I might offend. But they need to understand that if I held back, it would be a disservice to them, because I wouldn’t be giving them my authentic self.
And to me, I couldn’t make that work in my mind. I thought that was overstepping. That there’s a degree of respect that we need to have. I understand where he’s coming from, I can see that argument. I get that. But for me, personally, I think that there is still a level of decorum that we should expect, and that we need to have in different contexts and different cultures and different industries, situations. So that’s my personal take on it. But I’m very open to discussion. You know, and I’ve spoken to a lot of people about it publicly as well.
Nicole: Yeah. Well, you know, I think what resonated with me in there is I have this instrument called the tilt and I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of it before, but it’s about being balanced and conscious about you know, how you approach a situation. So like, if you went to somebody’s home, you wouldn’t start like taking pictures off the wall and redecorating or telling them oh, that’s not what I eat. Fix me something different. I mean, you would not do these things. And I think it’s because it’s about honor, and respect.
So in the tilt, just to give all of you listeners, maybe an example but poke a hole in my theory, Heather, if I’m not on the same page, as you. I have in the tilt, they talk about how there’s Aristotle’s golden mean, like, there’s a sweet spot of how you show up, and you can be underdone, or you can be overdone. So a really simple example for everybody to understand would be people should move in the world unmuted, or have great self esteem or self assurance. Like you know, come on, show up, speak up. Wait, your three things are.
Heather: Inspire action.
Nicole: Like we need that in the world so bad. Okay, so let’s say them again. Show up, speak up and inspire action. That’s self assured. That’s been unmuted. Now, being overdone would be I’m so self assured, I’m arrogant.
Heather: Yep. Those voices are too loud.
Nicole: I want to take my words and hit you with them or something. And then the other side is insecure, not speaking up, staying muted. And so is that what you’re saying about authentic adaptability?
Heather: Yeah, I think we are on the same page, though, that sounds very similar, you know, of knowing where that sweet spot is. And I think, you know, sometimes people will say, oh, but I shouldn’t be forced to change who I am. No, we should never be forced to change who we are. If changing who you are means going against the values you hold, dear. If it means that I don’t, I don’t know, it’s I love your example of going to someone’s home, you know. In all the homes here, you take off your shoes before you enter.
And even if you go to, like, get a massage or manicure, you would take your shoes off before you enter places like that. And what am I going to do? I’m gonna show up and be like, no, I’m sorry, I want to wear my shoes. Like, you’re you’re making me, I don’t ever take off my shoes in front of people I don’t know. Like, why should I have to take my shoes off? You know, it’s that kind of, does that really go against a core value? Like choose your battles, right?
Nicole: Choose your battles!
Heather: And know how to have respect for others. And for difference. I think that’s, that’s really the point. So yeah, yeah, that kind of compromise.
Nicole: I love that. Okay, now we’ve touched on listening a little bit. That’s chapter four of your book, conscious listening. And I mean, I agree with you. And you said earlier right at the beginning, and so everybody write this down. A real leader listens. So how do I, how do we become a conscious listener? What are some tips or tricks or strategies you can give me to be a better listener?
Heather: Well, there are some very specific ones that we can apply in the workforce, you know, in how we are designing our meetings, and how we are creating space for people to speak up, to listen better to actually give people time to speak. Because sometimes in a meeting, you get five people in the room, and there’s one or two that dominate and you don’t hear from the other three. And how do we get them talking? Is that that we need an agenda that we send out beforehand, so that they can prepare a little bit better. Maybe they aren’t as great as being on the spot thinkers and presenters as some of our more extroverted, gregarious colleagues might be? How do we get their ideas on the table?
You know, Amazon has a very interesting narrative that they do. They all have to write, before they go into a meeting, there’s a written narrative that goes through special points, it’s six pages, four or six pages. And it’s very specific the formatting of it. And that’s sent to everyone before the meeting, so that people have time to reflect on it, and to come with questions or whatever it might be. So there are certain ways that we can create more space for dialogue, also having rules of engagement in the meetings. So knowing you know that the people who are more talkative that they’re actually going to take it as their role to make sure that everyone has a chance to speak.
And other teams are starting to give equal talk time to each person. So five minutes each, and even if you have nothing to say, you are going to get five minutes and you can sit and think about what you want to say. You can pause and no one’s going to interrupt you. And it’s very uncomfortable when you do it the first time, but then you find how, as you give people a little more space and time, then they’re able to get even more ideas out. And maybe they aren’t ones who just think there in the first 20 seconds. You know, I’m one of those people who thinks as I speak out my thoughts, and I’m creating my ideas, as I’m talking.
A lot of people are not like that at all. And they need to sit in silence and put those thoughts together before they finally have made a decision of what it is they want to say. So we have to be really aware of the different communication styles like that, and then be open to listening to them. So those are some of the real, you know, tactical strategic things that we can do, just to allow for people who we don’t hear from, to speak up and hear their voices, right. But more than that, I think it comes down to asking a lot more curious questions, to inviting people into conversations.
And being prepared to truly listen without judgment. We have so many listening pitfalls, you know, trying to create a solution for them when they aren’t asking for a solution. They just want to be heard. Or judging what they’re saying, or trying to decide how we’re going to respond instead of just listening. And we do all of these things quite naturally. And we need to break some bad habits as well, when it comes to listening. It’s a big subject, though.
Nicole: Yeah, I totally agree. Yeah. And I’ve been teaching this thing called The Art of Dialogue for a lot of years. And it is the part where you were talking about everybody has equal time to share and that kind of thing. And when I do introduce it to organizations at first, they’re like what? But the companies that you know, take it on, practice with it, get uncomfortable, get messy with it, oh my gosh, the innovation and the genius that comes out of the group is at a you know, a much higher level. Yeah.
So the Art of Dialogue and you you actually use the word dialogue. So let me know people if you need help with that. Heather can help you with that. We want you to dialogue. That does not mean a discussion or a conversation. Let’s have a dialogue. All right. So that’s fantastic. All right. So then we move into chapter five, which is unmuted inclusion. And so DEI is on the lips of every HR professional I know. So tell me about unmuted inclusion.
Heather: Well, what I talk about a bit here, and I go on to talk about it in a couple other chapters as well, it is it’s referring to linguistic bias. Which is one area of the equation in DEI, that is forgotten quite often, or it’s a little sub note, or it’s a little addition. And I am very big on accent bias and how that is leading to other types of racism, sexism, all kinds of other discrimination.
And we see this happening in hiring decisions, we see it happening in promotion decisions, where their communication skills aren’t good enough, when really, it’s, they’re hard for me to understand. Or I don’t like their accent. Or it’s just too difficult. And, but really, what it is trying to remind people of is, you know, we have all these ideas. I mean, you’re in the Carolinas, right? I mean, you hear a lot of accents, and the Southern accents, especially have a lot of stigma in parts of the US, right. But very hospitable and and very friendly and very nice.
Nicole: But not the brightest bulb in the box.
Heather: Yeah, yeah. So you’re quite aware of the stigma. And how is that playing out in our workplaces? It doesn’t even have to be a non native speaker, how are you judging the you know, I had a good friend in Alabama, who moved to Wall Street worked on Wall Street. You can imagine how that went. They were calling her Pollyanna whenever she spoke up. And it was just really difficult, you know, and we have immediate ideas about how someone is if we and how they sound, if they’re from New Jersey, or New York, or Boston, or California even.
You know, the valley girl, and then the southern states. We have all these impressions and perceptions around that. And we need to be really careful that we are including every voice, that these kinds of bias are not creeping into our conversations. That we aren’t silencing people and not listening to them, because they speak in a way that’s maybe harder for us or, or different. And so that’s the piece of that puzzle. And that will probably be the next book that I write, which will be 100% on that topic, because I’m quite passionate about that.
Nicole: Yeah. And you know, one of my favorite stories I tell people is, I have a dear friend who was very high up inside of Lowe’s Home Improvement Organization. And he managed a whole team of folks in India. And he had this, you know, Wilkesboro, North Carolina foothills of North Carolina accent, and then he was calling over and having these meetings, you know, with folks in India. And people would make, you know, very silly comments like, well, how do you do that all day and that kind of thing.
And make these comments, they don’t see their blind spot and everything. And the gentleman that was from Wilkesboro said, well, I just love these people a lot. You know, and his southern accent, you know. And so the thing I love most about most about that is because like he knew that they’re just people and they’re not from Wilkesboro. And so they do talk, I mean, yeah, not talking to somebody from Boston.
Heather: Why would they sound like you? Why would they sound like you, that makes no sense. But that’s the problem is that people forget that they’re people, right? They almost dehumanize them because they sound different. And we have to, they are people, they deserve the same respect as everyone else. And sometimes we forget that. It gets a little ugly in some of the comments you’ll hear. Yeah, yeah. That’s wonderful though.
Nicole: You know, one of his dear friends are like, they come to Wilkesboro and visit him. I mean, you know, like they made from across the planet.
Heather: Fantastic.
Nicole: Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, also, in the second part of your book, How to Speak Up, you talk about finding confidence, working on your body language, you know, a voice. I love this, a voice that flows like honey, and you have this chapter about bad English good for business. So I think a lot of people are interested in maybe what does that mean? Bad English good for business?
Heather: Well, this whole section is really about confident communication. And it probably gives the most tips and strategies around specific skill sets, because I think confidence has to do with both our self confidence, but also our skills confidence. And the first step a lot of organizations go in with is oh, there’s a communication problem, we need training. Let’s just dump training on them. Let’s give them presentation, negotiation, empathy and la la la la la. And that’s really the last step right? It’s the smallest piece of the puzzle. There’s usually a lot more going on with the conscious communication we just talked about, and also connected which I assume we’ll talk about next. But this confidence piece, yes, we do need these these different skills.
And bad English goes right along the same lines, here as what I was talking about with accent bias. So I did a TED Talk back in ’18, called 2 billion voices: how to speak bad English perfectly. And this is all about the fact that we are hugely outnumbered as Western native speakers of English, by the billions of people in the world who have learned English in a classroom. And yet, we tend to enter conversations thinking that they should speak like us. And I’ve always thought it’s a little backwards. Like, why aren’t they teaching us how to speak like them? Why are we going into into global settings and learning how to speak in a way that is better understood.
Because it’s, in fact, us that are the biggest problem when we go into global settings. We use a lot of jargon, a lot of slang. Technical terms. We speak too fast, we use big SAT terms that, you know, nobody actually uses in real life. Like, why are people using them? Why are we even tested on them, I really want to know. But we have at least the educated professionals, we do have a lot of identity tied up in the language that we’re using, and a sense of proper English and what is good English and perfect English. And look at this email I just got from all these guys in India, and it’s littered with errors and they can’t even speak English. Whereas it could be perfectly acceptable in Indian varieties of English.
You know, we we need to be open to the idea that different English is not bad English. And it’s been hard for me in my career, having very talented, brilliant, top level professionals come to me saying, oh, my English is so bad. And I’m like, no, it’s not. You know, it really isn’t. I understand everything you’re saying. Who’s telling you it’s bad? Oh, you know, it’s basically it doesn’t sound like the CD that they used in my English class. And it’s like, well, I don’t either, because that was British. So why are you coming to me, I can’t help you. But, so bad English, I believe is good for business. When we drop all of that ego around the perfect English, blah, blah, and listen to the message, listen to the meaning behind the message.
Listen to the person. We all understand what they’re trying to say doesn’t really matter that he said he take the bus to work instead of he takes. Like, really, you’re going to have a problem with him because he didn’t use third person singular s like, what, why? And so it’s really a focus on connection and not perfection, that we can connect and build relationships, even without language. And when we use simple language, clear language, short sentences in global business, that’s when we get the job done.
When we’re checking for understanding, ensuring people that we’re on the same page. That’s how we can move forward. If you’re trying to impress with flowery language and all your technical terms, believe me, they’ll nod their heads and go do something completely different. And and that’s true, probably within the states and with people outside of it. We need to just get down to basics when it comes to our, the language we’re using and communication.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. And don’t miss what she said everybody. I wanted to just, you know, highlight what she said. She said, You know, there’s this thing of self confidence, but then also skill confidence. So there’s two areas to work on there. I think they both edify each other probably. Right. So I love that. Okay, so a new concept there for Nicole Greer is this idea of skill confidence. I love it. All right. Um, and I agree with you. You know, the thing that ran through my mind Heather when you were talking about that is I love John Kotter.
You’re probably familiar with his work. He’s a change management guy. I think fancy PhD from MIT. And so here he is at Massachusetts Institute, you know, and he’s doing all these things and very fancy. And he has this little video called hearts and minds. And he’s not the greatest communicator. But like, when you watch John Kotter, he’s like, let me tell you something. Here’s the thing. You can get more done if you get inside their hearts, get inside their hearts and their minds.
Heather: Pretty good impression there. That was quite good.
Nicole: It’s about you know, loving each other, just like my Lowe’s Home Improvement guy loves these people in India. Yes. You know, it’s just at a heart connection. And that’s not weird in business. It’s everything in business to have a heart connection. I mean, I love Apple products. That’s why I buy them. I mean, you know, what do you buy what you buy, because you love them? Right? So I think that’s so important. All right. I love what you’re talking about here. All right. So let’s bring it home hear the final part of your book. And we could spend like six hours probably going through her book everybody.
So you got to buy it. It’s Unmuted. It’s on Amazon. Go get it, get it. The third part is about inspiring action. And really, again, that is what leaders need to do. And like the sub, the subtitle of that part is connected communication, right. So tell us a little bit about how leaders can inspire action. You’ve got lots of great things on here. Create environment, the human skills we need. So talk about all that.
Heather: Yeah. So this is all focusing in on the human connection side of building a culture that’s inclusive, where people feel safe. We talk about psychological safety here, building strong relationships, just basic people skills. You know, that’s what was so funny when we moved into the pandemic, and we shifted online, and nobody really knew what to do. And I would have my clients calling me like, Heather, what do I do? What are your other clients doing right now? What are you doing for them? Come and do it for us, too. And there was, everyone was a bit lost. I’m like, all we need to do now is be human. You know, everything is stripped away, at this point, just be human.
And somehow, we didn’t know how to do that. How ironic. Why, is it so hard for us to be good humans? Why is that suddenly so difficult in a business context? And that was a real eye opener for me, it was, why do I even have to teach people skills? How do you need to teach these? You were born with this, you know how to read a room, you know how to feel emotion, you know how to connect with others. And somehow we make it very, very complicated. And so I think it’s about getting back to those basics again. You know, being a good person, of caring about others around you. And in the beginning, you know, it was every manager calling like, have you done this? Have you done that? You know, all worried no one’s doing their jobs, they’re all sitting at home watching TV during the pandemic.
And people weren’t doing that. Everyone was taking a lot of responsibility. They were being, you know, more efficient than they had ever been, without all the distractions of the office. And, and people were very focused. And I think probably focusing on their work, let us not focus on all the other stuff that was going on, you know. The work was like an escape. And so it was about shifting from checking up on people to checking in with them, you know, having conversations and how are you doing? How’s your family? How’s it going working from home? You know, have you found a good space? Do you have privacy are you and we lost a lot of those human connections and human conversations.
And it’s nice to see that coming back again. But we’ve also seen a shift in how we are relating to each other. And I think it’s becoming more important. And so this whole bit on connected communication is basically the only way you can inspire people to follow you, is when they feel a connection to you. It’s exactly what you were just saying about speaking to their hearts. Building trust, having empathy, human connection, and leading from that space of care is the only way people are going to follow you. And you have to be able to create that kind of community. I don’t like using the term family for business. A lot of people say it’s a family. No it’s not. I don’t want to work with my family. I don’t know about your family. No, it’s not a family.
And we don’t want it to be a family. But it should be a community. It should be a community where we care about each other, and we have an investment in each other’s success. And we’re all you know, reaching for the same goals. And we share the same values, even though hopefully, we don’t think in the same way. And we don’t have the same backgrounds. And we have a lot of diversity. But at our core, we want the same things. And that’s what’s going to create a nice strong culture and one that is connected and where you really can inspire others to follow. If you’re missing that, then it’s very difficult to be successful as a leader. Really difficult.
Nicole: Yeah, absolutely. All right. So a couple of nuggets in there, I just want to highlight. I always, because I know people are on their treadmill and riding in their cars, but don’t want you to miss the point.
Heather: So good you do it.
Nicole: She said, you know, instead of checking up on people, why don’t you check in on people. I absolutely adore that, first of all, for the words that you use, but then secondarily the concept. And I do think that’s what people really, really want. You know, I tell leaders all the time, you got to get out and get with the people. And you know, like you gotta go visit them, because I just remember being a young professional. And anytime I would see, like a regional person or a vice president, or a president, I was like, oh, there they are.
It was like seeing the queen or something or the untouchable. They’re alive, they’re in person. And I was the type of employee dare I say this that you wanted. I wanted to figure out how did you get to be the CEO? How did you get where you are? I want to be like you when I grow up, you know? And like, people don’t care. I’m like, no, you have no idea how close they want to get to you to understand how you’ve done what you’ve done.
Heather: And to be vulnerable, yeah.
Nicole: Let me talk to you for a minute. I mean, I’m not gonna bite, you know. And then the other thing I thought was so great is you said, we have to invest in each other’s success. I just love that. I mean, put that, write that down everybody. Invest in each other success, because you cannot do it alone. That’s why we talk about teamwork and culture and all these other things. Okay. All right. Well, everybody I have had the best time keeping Heather Hansen up past her bedtime in Singapore. And I would love to go like, you know, page by page. Here’s what I’m going to request is that everybody go and purchase Unmuted on amazon.com.
You all know how to do that by now. She’ll help you learn to unmute yourself, unmute your organization and give you resources and everything you need to do to go out there and make a little dent in the universe. Heather, I think there’s probably one listener going no, no, don’t stop. Let me hear one more nugget from Heather. So you know what little magical you know, pixie dust, would you sprinkle on the end of our conversation here? A little nugget for their, for them to write down and take with them into their day?
Heather: Oh, wow, I think we’ve covered absolutely everything. I think it’s just to go full circle where we started. I think the biggest jump they can make is by doing that self reflection about their values and knowing what they stand for. How are they showing up every day at work? What direction do they want to go? And is their vision aligned with their values? And are the values aligned with the organization? And how are you going to inspire others to follow? But it starts with you. It starts with you as a leader. And taking that time to reflect on how you’re showing up in the world and really ask the people around you, how am I living my values? Do you see me living them daily? And get that kind of feedback to find those blind spots as well. But I think that would be the one thing if I had to choose one thing today from a leadership perspective, I think that would be it.
Nicole: That’s fantastic. All right. So everybody, get your core values straight. Get out there, talk to your people. That’s your assignment from Ms. Heather Hansen, who is a global communication consultant. You can find her on her website at globalspeechacademy.com. You can email her at hh@globalspeechacademy.com. And of course she’s on the LinkedIn just look up Heather Hansen. She’ll pop right up. On Facebook at Global Speech Academy. And then also she’s twittering away over at Heather Hansen on Twitter. Heather, we are so grateful to have you. Thank you for being on the Build a Vibrant Culture podcast. We’d love to have you back again in the future. When you get that second book done, call me.
Heather: Sounds great, Nicole. Thanks so much. This has been so much fun. Thanks for having me.
Voiceover: Ready to build your vibrant culture? Bring Nicole Greer to speak to your leadership team, conference or organization to help them with her strategies, systems and smarts to increase clarity, accountability, energy and results. Your organization will get lit from within. Email Nicole@nicolegreer.com. And be sure to check out Nicole’s TEDx talk at nicolegreer.com.
